Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

[Dave G]

You still haven't asked what my reconciliation is?
(It's only one short sentence.)

With respect, I don't feel as if I need to ask.
I believe that I know what reconciliation is...
It is God reconciling believers to Himself, by Jesus Christ ( Romans 5:10-11, 2 Corinthians 5:18, Colossians 1:20-22 ).

Oh, I forgot, you're not interested ...

See my above.

because you already know everything.

Everything?
No, I don't know everything, Samuels...
But I do understand my Saviour's words, at least for the most part.

Yes, that's it.

No, that's not it.
It's because you believe in loss of salvation, and this isn't the first time I've considered the Scriptures that you see as support for it.

To me, wherever you are coming from, it's not from a complete understanding of how God's word all fits together, doctrinally.

Also, I'm being mindful of where you've already begun your thread arguing from... a standpoint of a person's behavior leading to their gaining of eternal life.
That is why I posted Romans 6:23...because eternal life is a gift, not a reward for good behavior.

To be blunt, here's what I see happening in our exchange thus far:

Not only do you see me as being wrong ( which is your prerogative ), you also think that you can justify any bad behavior as being Christlike...which isn't.
If you see me being anything but godly towards you, then call me on it.
I will take godly correction, sir.

At this point, I cannot take back my first post where I gave the picture of a cart before the horse...and I suspect you may believe that I was mocking you.
I'm sorry I did it, and cannot retract it.


I can, however, ask your forgiveness for it, and promise not to "shoot from the hip" as much as possible, in any further interaction that we may have.

 

[Dave G]

Back to what you stated before:

I have done it, and I challenge you to do this also.
Or, perhaps you don't think this is
a worthwhile endeavor?

I've already taken this challenge from others who believe this way, many times.
Not only am I convinced that salvation cannot be lost, I'm also convinced that anyone who teaches this set of doctrines, has it all backwards.
Faith is the evidence of being saved ( Hebrews 11:1 ), not the means whereby a person can gain eternal life.

True good works flow from the hearts and hands of someone who is saved...they don't deternine salvation, they reflect, or characterize it in the life of someone God has decided to show His mercy and grace to.
Obedience, in the life of a believer, does not determine where they end up...it is a reflection of the Holy Spirit in them, and their willingness to do God's will.

Again...to me, you have the cart before the horse.

It's as if you are somehow looking at God's word, and seeing "requirements" and "conditions", instead of seeing evidence, and obedience out of an already changed heart and set of desires...a love of God and a healthy respect for His power and holiness, instead of a mortal terror of Him and a belief that if one does not do everything in their power to walk the straight and narrow, then they can fall into eternal darkness for it.

Scripture is very plain, at least to me, that Christ's sheep can never be lost.
So, right away, we're starting off from totally opposite sides...and I know from past experience, that I will never be able to convince you or even most of the readers here, to "switch sides".


May God bless you, greatly, sir.

 

[Samuels]

I believe that I know what reconciliation is...
It is God reconciling believers
to Himself, by Jesus Christ
(Romans 5:10-11, 2 Corinthians 5:18, Colossians 1:20-22).

This in NO way reconciles ALL of the NT verses,
which stand on one side or the other of OSAS!

I'm not talking about reconciling believers.

IMO, you are greatly deceived,
or you are hiding from the Truth.

BTW, do you know what "reconcile" means?

 

[Dave G]

BTW, do you know what "reconcile" means?

Yes, I do.

I'm trying to tell you that I've already reconciled them all in my own mind.
To me, there's no need for us to discuss this further...

I'm already in full support of "Eternal Security", and have been, for decades.
What I don't believe in, is "antinomianism", or sinning that grace may abound ( Romans 6 ).

With that said, I will politely decline further discussion, and simply bid you a good day.

 

[37818]

“And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)
These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

Those who truly love God obey Him by resisting temptations to sin!

“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)
Believers who endure temptation:
● love God
● chose to be obedient to Jesus (see below)
● will receive the crown of (eternal) life

“Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.
So, don’t be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.” (James 1:14-16)
Believers who do NOT endure temptation:
● will fall into habitual sin
● will receive spiritual (eternal) death …
UNLESS they sincerely repent (stop their habitual sinning).

Those who really love Jesus obey Him
“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
“All who love Me will do what I say.” (John 14:23)
“Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.” (John 14:24)
“When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love” (John 15:10)
“You are my friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)
Who gets to heaven who does not love Jesus,
who is not His friend,
and who does not obey His commandments?

Slaves of sin -- OR -- slaves of obedience
“… if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?”
(Romans 6:16)

“… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:51)

“if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God. But there is NO (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, which was quoted as Scripture by early Christian leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria)

You confuse Law, Matthew 19:17 with Grace John 14:15 as explained in 1 John 3:23. Note Galatians 2:21.

 

[Samuels]

You confuse Law, Matthew 19:17 with Grace John 14:15 as explained in 1 John 3:23.
Note Galatians 2:21.

Please don't cherry-pick your favorite verses!
You must reconcile (understand and accept)
ALL of the NT verses!
Which one would you like me to explain for you?

 

[Revmitchell]

Please don't cherry-pick your favorite verses!
You must reconcile (understand and accept)
ALL of the NT verses!
Which one would you like me to explain for you?

Nothing obnoxious or arrogant about this post.

 

[tyndale1946]

Nothing obnoxious or arrogant about this post.

You don't discuss scripture with people of this mindset you let them discuss scripture with themselves... Brother Glen

 

[37818]

Please don't cherry-pick your favorite verses!
You must reconcile (understand and accept)
ALL of the NT verses!
Which one would you like me to explain for you?

Not my fault you confuse Law with Grace, John 1:17. There is a difference betweem the commandments and what Jesus called "my commandments." Matthew 19:17 and John 14:15. I have studied this some 50 years.

 

[Samuels]

I'm trying to tell you that I've already reconciled them all in my own mind.
To me, there's no need for us to discuss this further...

Folks, he has reconciled them in his own mind,
and absolutely refuses to share this extremely
critical information with any of the rest of us!
Wonderful.

 

[GoodTidings]

Eternal life is a gift which can be rejected
through NOT co-operating with the Holy Spirit,
who is trying to sanctify us unto holiness!

BACs can be estranged from Christ.
BACs can fall from grace.
BACs can draw back to perdition.
BACs can lose salvation by not enduring
in their faith until the end ...
by not enduring persecution of Christians
and/or
by submitting to taking the mark of the beast.

BACs can be thrown into the Lake of Fire
... cowards and habitual sinners,
(who are NOT in the unbelievers group)
in Revelation 21:7-8).

... and many etcs., but am I wasting my time?

Then it is not a gift at all. Salvation is not something you have be good enough to receive. A gift is not based on merit, but you teaching a false gospel of salvation by works.

Eternal life is given, never earned. You cannot obey God well enough to earn it, much less keep it.

 

[Samuels]

Then it is not a gift at all. Salvation is not something you have be good enough to receive. A gift is not based on merit, but you teaching a false gospel of salvation by works.
Eternal life is given, never earned. You cannot obey God well enough to earn it, much less keep it.

You've got everything all mixed up!
INITIALLY, God's grace is a free gift and is unearned.
We iz talking about AFTER being born-again!

 

[GoodTidings]

You've got everything all mixed up!
INITIALLY, God's grace is a free gift and is unearned.
We iz talking about AFTER being born-again!

I understand that. I am saying you're wrong. Your approach denies the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

Salvation is not only not earned, it is not kept by us. We do not keep ourselves saved. Salvation is 100% the work of God, from start to finish. He keeps us; we do not keep ourselves.

 

[Samuels]

Your approach denies the full sufficiency of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
... we do not keep ourselves.

Where mayest I read about the red?
The whole entire NT screams at us about
our responsibility of keeping ourselves!

 

[GoodTidings]

Where mayest I read about the red?
The whole entire NT screams at us about
our responsibility of keeping ourselves!

It does not tell us anywhere that we keep ourselves saved. That's just another of one of your disgusting lies.

 

[Samuels]

It does not tell us anywhere that we keep ourselves saved. That's just another of one of your disgusting lies.

There are several of them, but you're blind to anything that disagrees with your bias.
A truly pathetic situation.
Like, e.g. believing in cessationism, which is straight from the pits of hell.

A truly pathetic bunch of false doctrines passed down from family, friends, churches, etc.

Question:
What percentage of American church-goers ...
do you think will submit to taking the mark of the beast?
You must have talked about this in your church, right?

 

[GoodTidings]

There are several of them, but you're blind to anything that disagrees with your bias.

No, you simply have nothing in the Bible that says anything like that. You have to twist verses and rip them from their immediate context to make them appear to address something they were not intended to address.

A truly pathetic situation.
Like, e.g. believing in cessationism, which is straight from the pits of hell.

A truly pathetic bunch of false doctrines passed down from family, friends, churches, etc.​

Red herring

Question:
What percentage of American church-goers ...
do you think will submit to taking the mark of the beast?
You must have talked about this in your church, right?

Another red herring. Why are you trying to change the subject?

 

[Samuels]

It does not tell us anywhere that we keep ourselves saved. That's just another of one of your disgusting lies.

So, if I show you the verses, will you say they are disgusting lies?

 

[GoodTidings]

So, if I show you the verses, will you say they are disgusting lies?

No, not at all.

 

[Samuels]

So, if I show you the verses, will you say they are disgusting lies?

No, not at all.

Okay, send me your address and I'll send you an NT.