Man's contribution to salvation

[Jeremiah2911]

Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

I am doing what God has prepared me in advance to do.

Do you really think i am working for my own salvation in that story?

I do not believe in freewill, we only can go the direction that God placed before us the wide road or the norrow, you can't choose your own path apart from the word of life provided you.

God always gets the glory, Do you think man can take it from Him? The wages of my sin is death, it is my cost, not belief, not faith, not repentance, but death. That before the word we were heading to destruction and God gives a way out Jesus. You can by His word continue headed to condemnation. Through the words of Jesus God places life and death before us so believe in Jesus and live.

I can't pay that debt, so I have to trust in the finish work of Christ. He gets the glory.

It is God who say's that he believed God and He credited him righteouseness, the only hope I have is His word, not what I can do. It is God who credits not me.

I am not sure if you are addressing my post or not, but even if not, I [not being a scholar] can't see how you can read the story you posted and not interpret that it's glorifying the work of man, not God [again I ain't that bright]

This is the young rich ruler and his calling.

Luke 18
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

You can believe what you want, but he was called to follow Jesus.

Amen, this is a true statement, I can believe what I want, but I would rather believe what Jesus says:
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

So the question is, did Jesus fail in this one instance? You can believe what you want, but I don't think so...he was not called [given] to follow Jesus or he would have.....Peace

 

[Skandelon]

Earth, Wind and Fire posted this statement on another thread:

"You mean take the human element out of it & let God be God? A very wise Pastor once told me the following, " If man contributes any essential part towards his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior" .... I believe that to be the clear point of demarcation."

Today, because of the influence of scriptures on our lives we all think of humility, shame, brokenness and the act of giving up and admitting we are worthless is actually "good," thus some dismiss it as being an impossible response to the gospel for sinful depraved man, but scripture never teaches this.

Instead it says, "humble yourselves and you will be exalted."

So, what "GOOD" thing do we contribute to our salvation? Our sin, shame, brokenness and dirty rags in which we cry out, "HELP!" God, in his grace, takes that filthy rag and credits it to our account as righteousness. That is one reason God is so gracious! He takes our humble rags and turns them into riches untold.

 

[Herald]

Actually it is turning to God from self in the context of salvation.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (emphasis mine)

Repentance is very much a turning from sin. Yes, it is turning to God; but when you turn to something it means you are turning away from something. That something being turned from are "dead works" - sin!

No, you have to apply a proper hermeneutic and let the context determine how it should be applied. InTheLight is correct, the context of Ez. 36 is the nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel was certainly being written to here, no doubt about it. But as with many other passages in the Old Testament there is a dual audience. "Proper hermeneutic" is in the eye of the beholder. I am not a dispensationalist. I do not see a role for national Israel in prophecy. I do see a role for spiritual Israel; the true seed of Abraham. Having a sidebar discussion on systematic theologies, in this thread, will get us way off topic; but your appeal to hermeneutics is spot on. How we approach Scripture will influence our conclusions. That is why these debates, while robust and exciting, usually fail to persuade.

So, for the sake of brevity, while the primary audience at the time of Ezekiel's writing was the Jewish nation, the extended audience is spiritual Israel. According to the Reformed hermeneutic...

 

[psalms109:31]

I can't tell you how you got to where you are, but I can tell you where i got where I am. It sure isn't looking at one verse and say that I am something I am not.

Do you remember our curse our punishment for our fall. Adam and Eve had it all provided by God. God did all the work. They had to do nothing, but enjoy God and what He has made.

Then the fall and they had to work the land, till the ground, plant the seed, water it.

God did nothing, but make it grow. If they did nothing God didn't have to do nothing. How can anything grow if you don't have anyone to plant it. God gave it to us for the curse.

You are right apart from Christ we cannot produce a good crop. We must give our self over to Him and let Him work through us, we who are filled by the Holy Spirit is God's tool.

God doesn't do it alone He works through us.You know the word, How can anyone believe if they don't have anyone to preach to them. How can a seed be planted if no one plants it, how can it be watered in a dry and thirsty land when there is no one there to water it. “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

You believe you are His sheep. I don't, I believe I am a stray dog who begged at the master table. Who heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed and was included with His sheep and now He calls me His own an adopted son.

I looked through the scripture to see who is His sheep and who is not and here is what I found by the scripture and not man

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD.

His sheep

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

The wise and learned not His sheep.

Who i see are these, those who are wise in their own eyes and do not trust in the Lord and lean on their own understanding

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.



These are the one's who will come who the Fathers gives to His Son.

John 6:
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (emphasis mine)

Repentance is very much a turning from sin. Yes, it is turning to God; but when you turn to something it means you are turning away from something. That something being turned from are "dead works" - sin!




The nation of Israel was certainly being written to here, no doubt about it. But as with many other passages in the Old Testament there is a dual audience. "Proper hermeneutic" is in the eye of the beholder. I am not a dispensationalist. I do not see a role for national Israel in prophecy. I do see a role for spiritual Israel; the true seed of Abraham. Having a sidebar discussion on systematic theologies, in this thread, will get us way off topic; but your appeal to hermeneutics is spot on. How we approach Scripture will influence our conclusions. That is why these debates, while robust and exciting, usually fail to persuade.

So, for the sake of brevity, while the primary audience at the time of Ezekiel's writing was the Jewish nation, the extended audience is spiritual Israel. According to the Reformed hermeneutic...

Well said Herald.
If Ezekiel was the last book written it might be different, but as revelation is progressive we become better informed by the NT.revelation.Thank you for your helpful post.:thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

All I can go by is my experience, and how God brought me to the Throne of Grace and saved my soul.

When I was in high school-15 or 16-I was riding the bus home one afternoon when God came and showed me that I needed to live better, and to live for Him. Now, I started "trying" to do this, but with parents who weren't saved at that time, neither have a car, or the ability to drive, I could not go to church to hear the Word, and to get a better grasp of what God was telling me. Needless to say, I was back in the same rut, doing the same routine, etc. Over a period of several years, He would continually call out to me, and I would start going to church, but not being firmly planted, I went back to my sinful lifestyle. One sunday morning, I was going home from work, when I heard a FWB preacher preaching from Daniel chapter 3. This caused me to start thinking of where my sinfull life was taking me.....right to hell, the fiery furnace, the lake of fire, IOW, eternal torment. It was then that, through the working of the Spirit, I began going to church, listening intentively to what the preacher was saying, having a desire to be saved, but I did not know how to be saved.

I had it in my mind that if I would quit sinning, that He would save me. I would quit doing something, thinking He would now save me. Nope. I would then quit doing something else, thinking He would now save me. Nope again. The reason why I could not be saved was because I was trying to make my self good enough earn His Grace. It was when I came to the end of my travail, I had quit doing everything I knew was wrong, and I was still lost, ruined, and undone, ready for an eternal torment if He did not save me. On May 24th 2007, around the hour of 1:30AM, I quit trying, and then He took over and saved me.

We in the ORBs preach a travail from nature to grace. In this travail, it leads you down the road of repentance, showing you at the end of it, that no one can save themself. In this travail is a Godly sorrow(believe me, I had it, too), is set up. In this travail, there is faith, repentence, justification, santification, and at the end, SALVATION!!! All of these come from God.


IOW, its 100% God's work, and 0% mans.

King David said it best when he said, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation".

 

[psalms109:31]

The easiest way to say this for my personal salvation it was and is 100% God. That God worked through man to bring me to the truth. That God didn't just bring the truth without a vessel being used by Him. It isn't God alone but Him working through His people a Holy Spirit filled person to bring an unsaved person the words of Christ, the words of life. The farmer isn't an unsaved person working for salvation but a worker a saved person working in the field. I pray that the Lord of the harvast send out more workers for the harvast is plenty but the workers are few. Another meaning of Angel is messenger.

 

[convicted1]

Psalm 20:5 We will rejoice in thy salvation, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners: the LORD fulfil all thy petitions.



Psalm 69:29 But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high.



Psalm 35:3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.



I know that both sides will agree with these verses, but I wanted to sure you just how "purty" these'uns are!!! :thumbs::godisgood::jesus::love2:

 

[Jeremiah2911]

The easiest way to say this for my personal salvation it was and is 100% God. That God worked through man to bring me to the truth. That God didn't just bring the truth without a vessel being used by Him. It isn't God alone but Him working through His people a Holy Spirit filled person to bring an unsaved person the words of Christ, the words of life. The farmer isn't an unsaved person working for salvation but a worker a saved person working in the field. I pray that the Lord of the harvast send out more workers for the harvast is plenty but the workers are few. Another meaning of Angel is messenger.

Look at what you stated in bold above and I have just 2 questions: Who was Moses' preacher and who was Pauls preacher?

 

[psalms109:31]

Those are the farmers called men to work in His field that God worked through to be used by God to be His messenger.