The message of most of these apparitions is to remind us to spend more time in prayer to God. And to try to get to know Jesus better.
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Marian Apparitions
- Thread starter Zenas
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The message of most of these apparitions is to remind us to spend more time in prayer to God. And to try to get to know Jesus better.
So if any false prophet added those words to his message he becomes a true prophet? Didn't all the demons acknowledge Jesus as "the Son of God"? Have you ever listened to a Mormon speak about Jesus as their Savior?
So in your mind there is no such thing as "another Jesus" or "another spirit" or "another gospel" of Jesus Christ? And did that spirit go on to explain what those words actually mean and how Jesus actually saves anyone???
Praying to who really? Praying to the false "Mary" god? The pagan Madonna and babylonian "Queen of Heaven?" The harlot "mary" called the "co-redemptrix"????
No, that's my point: Mary, in these apparitions, doesn't tell us to pray to her. She reminds us to pray to Jesus and to God the Father in Jesus' name. This is her role as our mother, to remind us to pray, like our human mothers did when we were children.
Even if we completely disagree about whether it is possible for a saint in heaven to be aware of what is going on on earth, and to hear us when we pray, you should still be capable of drawing a distinction between treating a person as our mother vs. treating them as our God. Why can't you see that there is a whole spectrum of honor that we give to other human beings that doesn't have to cross over into the area of worship which would be an offense against God? How come you think it's okay to ask people to pray for us while they're alive, but as soon as they go off to heaven it becomes idolatry to ask them to pray for us? Even if it's a waste of time because they can't hear us asking, why is it necessarily idolatry?
I quoted it correctly! I just didn't quote your favorite version. The KJ translators properly captured the imagery. The figure of columns holding up a roof implies a solid foundation upon which the pillars stand. The KJV got it right. The Word of God is that "foundation" that the congregation is built upon. Certainly not built upon a sinful man like Peter but upon the Word of God.
Does not the scripture command you to "try the spirits." Do you actually believe that the Spirit of God would confirm Mormonism by miraculous appearances by Jesus to the Mormons? Why not? Because Mormonism preaches "another Jesus" and "another gospel" and is empowered by "another spirit."
Likewise Roman Catholicism. The Holy Spirit is not going to confirm RCC or their doctrine of mary to anyone. This is pure demonic just like the rest of the mary apparitions.
You have a point there. But so do I:smilewinkgrin:
Why if they are just empty words and they continue worshiping Mary?
2 Corinthians 11:14
First, she is not "our" mother in any sense of the term.
Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
She is not the "Mother of God" as she did not conceive God but as Isaiah correctly says, the Son was "given" and the child was "born".
Why? It is very simple. Here we pray WITH each other UNTO God. God alone is the object of prayer. However, Roman Catholicism replaces God as the sole object of prayer and pray UNTO creatures. In addition, they are asking creatures to take the place of Jesus Christ as our mediator between us and God. This is blasphemous! You are worshipping the creature rather than the Creator.
Please forgive me if I misunderstand what you're saying....
But are you saying that what bothers you is the method we communicate with Mary to ask her to pray for us, because this method of speaking out loud and expecting her to hear us, or even thinking the thoughts and expecting her to hear them, is a method of requesting something that should only be used with God?
According to their own catechism, Catholics should not be worshipping Mary anyway.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Mary is not mediator between man and God. Why on earth would anyone pray TO a dead saint?
When Jesus gave the model prayer to his disciples, it did not begin by saying "Our Father Abraham which art in heaven."
Jesus is our example and he prayed often and many of his prayes are recorded but we NEVER have him praying to Moses or Elijah or any other departed saint in heaven to intercede on his behalf.
There is not one single example where any apostle prayed to Mary or any other departed saint in heaven.
God alone is the object of Prayer as prayer is the most pure form of worship we enter into. Even the House of God which is the house of worship is called "the house of prayer" as prayer is the most purest form of worship. Indeed, there is no prayer acceptable to God except "in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:26-27) and the Spirit will never lead anyone to pray unto any creature but always unto the Creator (Eph. 2:18). What Rome practices is creature worship.
Rome treats the Word of God like putty it can take and mold any way it wants in order to defend its traditions.
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
The Holy Spirit did not conceive the "Son" in Mary but the "child" as it is the "child" that was born of Mary. The Son of God preexisted the virign birth. Hence, Mary did not conceive God the Son. What she conceived was "the child". The Son "took upon himself" the seed of Abraham but the "child" was conceived as the seed of Abraham. The Son TABERNACLED the "child" born of Mary (Jn. 1:14,18). The Son "indwelt" the "child" but the child was conceived in the womb of Mary
Er....no, look at their actual pratice! Pope John Paul when shot prayed unto Mary not The Father!
Now you're talking heresy; Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. Yes, the Son pre-existed the Virgin Birth but He - Jesus - was conceived of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit. So, unless you are espousing some kind of latter-day Nestorianism, you can't get round the fact that Mary, as all mothers do, conceived a child who was 100% God. Therefore, 'Mother of God' is not an unreasonable title, as long as it does not imply any kind of pre-existence or superiority; indeed, I prefer the term 'Bearer of God', as a direct translation of theotokos.
If that is the practice, then that is indeed wrong.
The Holy Spirit conceived the child in Mary. The Son of God took upon himself what the Holy Spirit conceived. The Holy Spirit did not conceive God the Son. The Holy Spirit conceived the "flesh" while the Son TABERNACLED in the flesh.
What you are forced to believe is that the Holy Spirit conceived God the Son and that is heresy as God the Son is ETERNAL. The Father PREPARED A BODY (Heb. 10:6-8) but the Son INDWELT that Body.
There is no time gap here. When the Spirit concived the "child" the Son indwelt what was conceived and Jesus Christ was and is 100% man and 100% God. Mary did not conceive God but God conceived the child in Mary and God the Son INDWELT what the Spirit conceived. She is the mother of what she conceived - "what is born of flesh is flesh"
What do you mean "if"??? It is their practice from the Pope down.
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In my understanding, the word "pray" means "to ask". It's from the old engilsh word for 'ask'. So if I ask you to pray for me that I'm able to understand something better, for example, I am praying you to pray for me.
So, we ask living people to pray for us and we ask saints in heaven to pray for us in the same way. The only difference is the way we communicate with the person we are asking to pray for us. But it seems to hit a mental block with some people because we communicate with the saints in the same way we normally communicate with God.
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