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Mark of the BEAST
- Thread starter wopik
- Start date
WHAT ADVENTISM TEACHES: Sabbath keeping will be the test of obedience during the Great Tribulation. Adventism contends that during the Great Tribulation, Sunday observance will be the mark of the beast. They say it was the pope, as a type of the Antichrist, who changed the Sabbath to Sunday. All who observe Sunday worship in the Great Tribulation will be taking the mark of the beast and will, therefore, be lost.
Adventist interpreters understand this mark to be not a literal brand but some sign of allegiance that identifies the bearer as loyal to the power represented by the Beast. The controversy at that time will center on the law of God, and particularly on the fourth command. ... Hence, the observance of Sunday will constitute such a sign." (News From Jesus-part two, p. 28, Adult Sabbath School Lessons, third quarter, 1974).
"...this dispensing with one of the precepts of the Decalogue and substituting in its place a day God never commanded, is claimed by this power as the mark of its authority to bind the consciences of men. However appalling the revelation, this establishment of the first day of the week as a day of worship in spite of God's clear word that the seventh day is His Sabbath-this, by overwhelming evidence and unashamed admission, is the mark so soon to be imposed!" (Planet in Rebellion, p. 386).
From Way of Life Encyclopedia
Adventist interpreters understand this mark to be not a literal brand but some sign of allegiance that identifies the bearer as loyal to the power represented by the Beast. The controversy at that time will center on the law of God, and particularly on the fourth command. ... Hence, the observance of Sunday will constitute such a sign." (News From Jesus-part two, p. 28, Adult Sabbath School Lessons, third quarter, 1974).
"...this dispensing with one of the precepts of the Decalogue and substituting in its place a day God never commanded, is claimed by this power as the mark of its authority to bind the consciences of men. However appalling the revelation, this establishment of the first day of the week as a day of worship in spite of God's clear word that the seventh day is His Sabbath-this, by overwhelming evidence and unashamed admission, is the mark so soon to be imposed!" (Planet in Rebellion, p. 386).
From Way of Life Encyclopedia
The Mark has to do with all 10. You could keep the sabbath, but there are others, a full ten. Where are those that made fun of Wopik in the beginning of this thread? Did they flee? The bible says they will. SO THEY WILL! Afraid of the scriptures? HMMM....Come out from them children, lets explore the scriptures. If an ostrich sticks his head in the sand... Will the SON rise? Even if he dont see it? U bet ya!
[ March 27, 2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: UUall ]
[ March 27, 2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: UUall ]
This second beast of Revelation 13 which has two horns "like a Lamb" and yet speaks "as a dragon," with the forked tongue of Satan, is nothing more than a great false religious system, called "Babylon the great," under the power of the false prophet of biblical prophecy.
http://garnertedarmstrong.ws/pubs/markof.htm
http://garnertedarmstrong.ws/pubs/markof.htm
It is my understanding that the celebrating Christmas on Dec 25 was a strategy of the church to overtake the pagan holiday, not to participate it. I think the same thing goes for Easter. Because the days are the same does not make them pagan.
And please explain to me how celebrating the birth and resurrection of Jesus is a pagan celebration?
Romans 14
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
F or not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Debby in Philly
Active Member
Romas 3:19 - 4:10
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a]
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a]
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
Romans 14:1-6 has to do with the same subject Paul covered in 1 Corinthians 8.
Paul addressed the issue of eating meat that may have been sacrificed to idols and consequently could have been viewed by some members as unfit to eat.
Paul's point in that chapter was that any association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether that food was otherwise suitable for eating.
Paul is speaking specifically about a certain topic: of "fasting and eating", and eating meat that was used in sacrifices vs. vegetarianism.
"He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord" has been used for justifying the use of Sunday, Christmas, Easter, etc...., when it had nothing to do with that, at all.
Paul addressed the issue of eating meat that may have been sacrificed to idols and consequently could have been viewed by some members as unfit to eat.
Paul's point in that chapter was that any association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether that food was otherwise suitable for eating.
Paul is speaking specifically about a certain topic: of "fasting and eating", and eating meat that was used in sacrifices vs. vegetarianism.
"He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord" has been used for justifying the use of Sunday, Christmas, Easter, etc...., when it had nothing to do with that, at all.
I have relative;He is a strong seven Day Adventist;He told me that keeping Sunday was Mark of Beast.I meet with other Believers on Sunday.I do believe leader of Catholic church will help E. U. leader with Jerusalem question.
The Mark of Beast will be put into place in Middle of soon to be signed Israel-Arab Interium peace plan and Connected to worship of E.U. strong man.A person will not accedently take this Mark/He She will know full well since they didn:t accept Jesus God will send strong delusion/Don:t get me wrong when THE CHurch is taken out and Russia & Iran with all the Jew Haters move to destroy Isrel/There will be greatest & Briefest Revival ever after people see 84% of these Anti Semite Russians and Arabs killed by the Almighty.Look up Ambasseders are caught before this Wrath can be poured out.God hasn:t appointed His Bride to be on Earth at this time.sundown
The Mark of Beast will be put into place in Middle of soon to be signed Israel-Arab Interium peace plan and Connected to worship of E.U. strong man.A person will not accedently take this Mark/He She will know full well since they didn:t accept Jesus God will send strong delusion/Don:t get me wrong when THE CHurch is taken out and Russia & Iran with all the Jew Haters move to destroy Isrel/There will be greatest & Briefest Revival ever after people see 84% of these Anti Semite Russians and Arabs killed by the Almighty.Look up Ambasseders are caught before this Wrath can be poured out.God hasn:t appointed His Bride to be on Earth at this time.sundown
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Rev 13 and 14 the Mark of the Beast is explicitly connected to worship and true worship of God is contrasted against the number, name, mark of the Beast.
The "mechanism" for the mark be it computers or paper or scanner or .... is not the point. We can not ago around condemning paper or scanners or computers as if THE USE of those means is the problem God is highlighting. The issue is not that fact that it is a means of control and identification - the problem is that it is connected to a moral issue related to worshipping God or more precisely an issue prohibiting the worship of God in some way.
Making stuff up about world national events as if that is the issue does not help either. you have to actually take the sections of Rev 13 and 14 that address "the Mark" and exegete a sound position.
There is a lot of "making stuff up" that is substituted for that sound Bible approach on this topic.
In Christ,
Bob
The "mechanism" for the mark be it computers or paper or scanner or .... is not the point. We can not ago around condemning paper or scanners or computers as if THE USE of those means is the problem God is highlighting. The issue is not that fact that it is a means of control and identification - the problem is that it is connected to a moral issue related to worshipping God or more precisely an issue prohibiting the worship of God in some way.
Making stuff up about world national events as if that is the issue does not help either. you have to actually take the sections of Rev 13 and 14 that address "the Mark" and exegete a sound position.
There is a lot of "making stuff up" that is substituted for that sound Bible approach on this topic.
In Christ,
Bob
OH why havent I ever SEEN this before? I just realized something... Now I realize why Revelation 14 quotes from the 4th commandment, the sabbath commandment... then it says Gods people keep the commandments of GOD (I always thought it was odd that it doesnt just say they keep the commandments) :
Revlation 14:
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.
Mt:15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men .
Mk:7:7: Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men .
the sunday sabbath is the commandments of MEN
cant believe I never realized that before! the Bible prophecies are amazing
Revlation 14:
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God , and the faith of Jesus.
Mt:15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men .
Mk:7:7: Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men .
the sunday sabbath is the commandments of MEN
cant believe I never realized that before! the Bible prophecies are amazing
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Never mentiones Christ the Creator's Seventh-day Sabbath - the memorial of His work as our Creator!
But it does say "One man observes ONE cay OVER another while another observes EVERY day" speaking of the list of holy days given in scripture IN Lev 23 and observed by the Jewish Christians in the NT.
There was NO issue in the NT church where someone was taking Sabbath rest for 365 days in the year!! (Though some have made up such stories)
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Romans 14 --
"One observes ONE day ABOVE another while another observes EVERY DAY - he who OBSERVES the day OBSERVES it for the Lord"
#1. The word "alike" is inserted into the text. All translations admit to this.
#2. The focus is on the day OBSERVED.
#3. The list of days to OBSERVE known to the people of God at the time of Romans 14 is only given in Lev 23. "Making stuff up" does not work here.
To see a list of “ALL” the days that were to be observed – turn to Lev 23.
To see a list of THREE out of that set that were actually required of all – see Exodus 23.
#2. There is no OT command to "observe every day".
#3. There is no mention at all of the 7th day Sabbath of Creation week - of the 4th commandment.
#4. BOTH practices (and both Examples) are being defended in Romans 14.
#5 EVEN if you Inject God's own Seventh-day Sabbath INTO the Romans 14 text - that would mean that keeping the 10 commandments IS allowed such that the arguments made AGAINST Sabbath Keeping (saying that it places us under the law) are void. Because if such arguments were true - you could not "defend" such an outcome. You could not argue "For those who want to be back under the law - let them believe it - its ok - they do so for the Lord". That is extreme opposite of the Galations 5 position and you end up with an internally - self-conflicted - text.
#6. The NT issue defined: It is the Annual feast days - the annual Sabbaths. One person observes ONE of them above the other - while another "observes Every day" - all of them.
Paul is arguing that BOTH practices are valid, in fact Paul Himself observed all of them as we find in Acts 21, 23, and 24.
And as Paul says of those observing these feast days –
Every commentary found so far – acknowledges that these are the Lev 23 feastival days and that “esteem” is in fact a reference to “OBSERVING” them.
6He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
English Standard Bible – vs 6
6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.[/quote]
"One observes ONE day ABOVE another while another observes EVERY DAY - he who OBSERVES the day OBSERVES it for the Lord"
#1. The word "alike" is inserted into the text. All translations admit to this.
#2. The focus is on the day OBSERVED.
#3. The list of days to OBSERVE known to the people of God at the time of Romans 14 is only given in Lev 23. "Making stuff up" does not work here.
In this case - one person regards (esteems so as to observe) One day ABOVE another - while another brother regards (esteems so as to Observe) EVERY day.
To see a list of “ALL” the days that were to be observed – turn to Lev 23.
To see a list of THREE out of that set that were actually required of all – see Exodus 23.
Some may observe ALL the Lev 23 annual feast days – or some may have chosen to honor only the 3 mandatory ones listed in Exodus 23. But after the end of all animal sacrifices (Heb 10) with the death of Christ. The shadows ceased to be mandatory. Paul points this out in general in Col 2 and then specifically for Passover in 1Cor 5 “Christ our Passover has been slain” 1Cor 5.
#1. Neither of these is the case of "observing NO day" - or "regarding NO day". (not withstanding the hopes of many today who might wish that such was the case).
#2. There is no OT command to "observe every day".
#3. There is no mention at all of the 7th day Sabbath of Creation week - of the 4th commandment.
#4. BOTH practices (and both Examples) are being defended in Romans 14.
#5 EVEN if you Inject God's own Seventh-day Sabbath INTO the Romans 14 text - that would mean that keeping the 10 commandments IS allowed such that the arguments made AGAINST Sabbath Keeping (saying that it places us under the law) are void. Because if such arguments were true - you could not "defend" such an outcome. You could not argue "For those who want to be back under the law - let them believe it - its ok - they do so for the Lord". That is extreme opposite of the Galations 5 position and you end up with an internally - self-conflicted - text.
#6. The NT issue defined: It is the Annual feast days - the annual Sabbaths. One person observes ONE of them above the other - while another "observes Every day" - all of them.
Paul is arguing that BOTH practices are valid, in fact Paul Himself observed all of them as we find in Acts 21, 23, and 24.
And as Paul says of those observing these feast days –
Every commentary found so far – acknowledges that these are the Lev 23 feastival days and that “esteem” is in fact a reference to “OBSERVING” them.
Amplified Bible vs 6
6He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
English Standard Bible – vs 6
6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.[/quote]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Notice there is no "HE who does not observe a day - is not doing so For the Lord".
And the term “Observe” is used to show “in accord with the command of God”. In Matt 28:20 Christ the Creator tells His followers to “Go into all the World and make disciples of ALL nations…teaching them to Observe All that I Commanded you”.
Some will argue that to value and “esteem” one day above another in vs 5 – results in OBSERVING the day in vs 6. But to Value and Esteem ALL days (of the Lev 23 list) results in OBSERVING NONE!
Vs 5 "One esteems one day ABOVE another while another esteems ALL" vs 6 "SO The one who OBSERVES the day OBSERVES it for the Lord"!!
We can not split these verses into separate topics. It is all one point.
As we see in vs 5 they place value on (esteems) either ONE day or on ALL days in the Lev 23 list of days to be Observed. The one who places value only on ONE day is NOT observing ALL the days in the list!!
There is no such thing as a limited choice such that "One can only OBSERVE ONE of the Lev 23 days or NONE of them" as many suggest. They insert a false either-or fallacy to try to bend the text to their usages.
They are twisting the SAME word in Vs 5 from "VALUE and ESTEEM" in the case of ONE day -- to "NOT value and NOT ESTEEM" in the case of ALL days in the Lev 23 list. So that valuing/esteeming ONE results in OBSERVING one - but value and esteem for ALL days in the Lev 23 list results in observe none!!!
That form of logic twisting inserted INTO the text has to be done from previous bias - it is not IN the text!
The issue in vs 5 and 6 is WHICH of the Lev 23 feast days you choose to observe,, either ALL or some above others. The ‘esteem NONE” option is not there!
So Which practice is "weak" in this second example
In this case NO assignment is made regarding Weak or Strong faith in terms of "days". BUT if we follow the same rule as diet above - then we might assume that in the same way the FIRST case is the STRONG faith case and the Second case is the WEAK. In that case the one who Observs ONE feast day above the others is the one STRONG in faith - and the one who observes ALL the feast days is the one weak in faith.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in...."truth". (Jesus)
I don't think God cares if I hide/hunt/eat all the easter eggs, so long as I'm mindful/thankful of a woman who went looking for something but couldn't find it because "IT" had been "Resurrected".
Worship is in the "spirit", not the "flesh".
I don't think God cares if I hide/hunt/eat all the easter eggs, so long as I'm mindful/thankful of a woman who went looking for something but couldn't find it because "IT" had been "Resurrected".
Worship is in the "spirit", not the "flesh".