Marriage preparation

[Olivencia]

NICE TRY annsni. Next time don't agree with someone when they have their facts wrong. Read on...and educate yourself.




Sadly, this is the type of response that I expected from you.

Since you asked, here's what you said in your own words, to a brother who is having marriage problems:

"I'd put my foot down and say and no way! Give it back to her man. I'll tell ya, this is the prime reason I came to the Philippines. I was so sick and tired of this "What about my rights attitude"!
You gotta take control man. Lay down the law. If she don't like it then tough cookies. You don't deserve for her to treat you like garbage. So oftentimes with women you have to take the I don't care approach. Thing is, you have done enough to get along and to pacify her rants. Now is the time to speak up! And speak up loudly! They only understand (and respect) a guy when he resorts to doing things like this.
Hey, the more you do the more she is going to complain. The situation will not improve. Change it!
Don't submit to the intimidation!"

Yeah, that's real love all right...

Thank you Mexdeaf - I was JUST going to look for that quote. You saved me time.

So instead I'll say "What Mexdeaf said!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------> Where does it say about beating them into submission? Beating them? I stressed about speaking up. Learn how to read.

Your turn to prove something that doesn't exist. Have fun

 

[Mexdeaf]

There is physical abuse and there is verbal abuse. Enough said.

 

[gb93433]

I always thought the Bible was true. The Bible says that a man will reap what he sows. It also says that a husband is to love his wife like Christ loves the Church.

 

[Olivencia]

There is physical abuse and there is verbal abuse. Enough said.


-> You asserted that I am for beating a wife into submission. Verbal abuse doesn't fit that description and you know it. No wonder why you wrote "enough said". Learn how to properly communicate.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I always thought the Bible was true. The Bible says that a man will reap what he sows. It also says that a husband is to love his wife like Christ loves the Church.

--> I agree. And I gave advice to a man that was being nagged, berated and belittled by his wife. If the church did that to Christ He has the authority to correct it.

 

[gb93433]

I always thought the Bible was true. The Bible says that a man will reap what he sows. It also says that a husband is to love his wife like Christ loves the Church.

--> I agree. And I gave advice to a man that was being nagged, berated and belittled by his wife. If the church did that to Christ He has the authority to correct it.

Remember how God corrects though and what scripture says how we are to correct one another. Correction may be in order but love must come first or we are just a noisemaker. Who of us have not need correction even by our won wives. If we do not have love we are nothing. Love is patient, love is kind, . . .

Leadership is seldom about authority but about serving. If we do not serve then all we have left is a title. Many leaders in companies are not the person who has the title but one whom other respect and look for leadership. If you have ever pastored a church or been a leader in a business you know that you may not ever be the leader unless you win the person who is the real leader and they give you that place of respect.

The passage in Ephesians is a practical way that the husband and wife can love each other. It is not about pointing an accusatory finger.

 

[Olivencia]

Remember how God corrects though and what scripture says how we are to correct one another. Correction may be in order but love must come first or we are just a noisemaker. Who of us have not need correction even by our won wives. If we do not have love we are nothing. Love is patient, love is kind, . . .

--> The man who posted the article about his wife tried many times to love her but she still continued in her abuse and disrespect towards him. What does the Lord of love do according to Hebrews 12:6?

Leadership is seldom about authority but about serving. If we do not serve then all we have left is a title. Many leaders in companies are not the person who has the title but one whom other respect and look for leadership. If you have ever pastored a church or been a leader in a business you know that you may not ever be the leader unless you win the person who is the real leader and they give you that place of respect.

--> According to what this man has posted he tried over and over again to appease his wife. Now another approach is called for.

The passage in Ephesians is a practical way that the husband and wife can love each other. It is not about pointing an accusatory finger.

--> According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him.


--> We should also note here how I have been falsely accused. I have never heard how beating someone into submission means a non-physical act. If a person accuses another person of that without any qualifications at all it is understood as something physical.

 

[Scarlett O.]

--> According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him.

No. Ephesians 5:33 says that she is to reverence him.

The word reverence, φοβέω, has more than one meaning. Funny that you only picked "fear".

There are several definitions of the word according to Strong's concordance.

1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
a) to put to flight, to flee
b) to fear, be afraid
1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences
b) of those struck with amazement
2) to fear, be afraid of one
3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience

I think "struck by amazement" is more like what she is to feel. Or venerate or treat with deference or reverential obedience.

I don't think God means that she is supposed to be so scared of him that she "runs away". Or that he is a "strange sight".

I think she is to be so amazed at his awesomeness that she treats him with tremendous respect and honor.

 

[gb93433]

The man who posted the article about his wife tried many times to love her but she still continued in her abuse and disrespect towards him. What does the Lord of love do according to Hebrews 12:6?

The love he is to show her is not conditioned upon her response but on his command from God. Christ's love for the church is unconditional and so must the husband's love for his wife. Too many today believe that if "it does not work" then give up. Imagine where we would be if God had given up on us.

According to what this man has posted he tried over and over again to appease his wife. Now another approach is called for.

In all of my years I have seldom seen a relationship as a one sided problem. It is a relationship not who is right and who is wrong.

According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him.

Think about how much Christ loves the church. Does he love his wife that much? I have seen marriages saved when God reached the other person.

When a man quits loving his wife he is giving up on the very command God gave him and in effect is disobedient. Loving may be hard but not impossible. God never said to love only when it is easy. God will teach that man more about how to love and about God's love. He is being perfected at this time.

Is the God who created the heavens and the earth also able to save a marriage? Belief is nothing more than words and static until it becomes a verb and put into action and made dynamic.

 

[Olivencia]

It's funny that I only picked fear? Well so does Kittel, Danker and Vine.

1. TDNT 9:217 - Concerning wives, they "... are still to fear in subordination, for they owe this to their exemplary walk (1 Pt. 3:2) or to their husbands ws tw kuriw (Eph. 5:22, cf. 33).
2. Danker - citing Ephesians 5:33, to have a profound measure of respect for, (have) reverence, respect, w. special ref. to fear of offending (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, page 1061).
3. Vine: (b) to show reverential fear (1) ...Eph. 5:33 (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, fear - phobew, page 415).
-------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think God means that she is supposed to be so scared of him that she "runs away".

--> The Greek word for that is ptoesis (Strong's #4423).

 

[Olivencia]

Originally Posted by Olivencia
The man who posted the article about his wife tried many times to love her but she still continued in her abuse and disrespect towards him. What does the Lord of love do according to Hebrews 12:6?

The love he is to show her is not conditioned upon her response but on his command from God. Christ's love for the church is unconditional and so must the husband's love for his wife. Too many today believe that if "it does not work" then give up. Imagine where we would be if God had given up on us.

--> I never said give up. I wrote try another approach. Sometimes love must be tough. Jesus drove out the money changers, the same Paul who said let all that you do be done in love (1 Corinthians 16:14) is the Paul who said to Elymas that he was a child of the devil (Acts 13:8).
------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
According to what this man has posted he tried over and over again to appease his wife. Now another approach is called for.

In all of my years I have seldom seen a relationship as a one sided problem. It is a relationship not who is right and who is wrong.

--> Granted we don't know but...based on the information given I wrote my response. If you have seen it "seldom" it does mean that it has happened.
----------------------------------------------------
Quote:
According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him.

Think about how much Christ loves the church. Does he love his wife that much? I have seen marriages saved when God reached the other person.

--> Based on his article the more he tried the worse it became.


When a man quits loving his wife he is giving up on the very command God gave him and in effect is disobedient. Loving may be hard but not impossible. God never said to love only when it is easy. God will teach that man more about how to love and about God's love. He is being perfected at this time.

--> I never wrote to stop loving her.

Is the God who created the heavens and the earth also able to save a marriage? Belief is nothing more than words and static until it becomes a verb and put into action and made dynamic.

--> Agree

 

[gb93433]

I think she is to be so amazed at his awesomeness that she treats him with tremendous respect and honor.

It is a command to her not because he is great or awesome. Certainly if he treated her great then it may make it much easier for her. However there are some who would find that impossible because of their desire for power and control.

Prov 30:21-23, "Under three things the earth quakes, and under four, it cannot bear up: Under a slave when he becomes king, and a fool when he is satisfied with food, under an unloved woman when she gets a husband, And a maidservant when she supplants her mistress."

Too many today teach that if the husband loved his wife enough that she would automatically submit herself to him. I do not believe that for one minute. If that were the case then there would be no need for a command for the wife to follow. scripture would never need to address that issue.

When a wife submits herself to her husband she is giving up her power and desire for control. When a man loves his wife he is giving up his power and desire for control. It is one of the first problems in Genesis between a husband and wife and people in general.

An unloved woman is much like a leech--she will not be satisfied with her husband's love. Until she is willing to trust God and know His love she will never understand and experience her husband's love. An unloved woman has little to give and no love to give. She does not know what love is.

 

[gb93433]

I never said give up. I wrote try another approach. Sometimes love must be tough. Jesus drove out the money changers, the same Paul who said let all that you do be done in love (1 Corinthians 16:14) is the Paul who said to Elymas that he was a child of the devil (Acts 13:8).

Driving out the money changers is not like driving out a wife unless she is violating the marriage in her behavior such as breaking the law and immorality.

Granted we don't know but...based on the information given I wrote my response. If you have seen it "seldom" it does mean that it has happened.

I have seen it happen once. The man was dealing drugs.

According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him. Based on his article the more he tried the worse it became.

I have seen that before. She may very well be testing him and wanting it proven to her satisfaction. She may be like a dry well or an unloved woman. That kind of behavior is very much like someone who sabotages relationships. If what you write is true then I would suggest she see someone who deals with those kind of people. People that are molested often have to deal with problems that many may not know about. Do not suggest that she see a local pastor because most are too busy and are not trained to deal with such issues. Someone I know was much like that lady and got professional help. It tok about two years of help. That person is very different today.

Until that lady realizes what she is doing she may never get better. It is doubtful she knows what love is and what it looks like.

I would wonder what her other realtionships are like among men and women. Does she have problems with intimacy with her husband? Does she have problems in getting close to others?

 

[ccrobinson]

Olivencia, if you're going to quote other people's posts and respond to them, might I suggest an alternative to what you're doing? Using the quote function will make your posts much easier to follow.

You asserted that I am for beating a wife into submission. Verbal abuse doesn't fit that description and you know it.

Don't pretend that you can't beat somebody into submission verbally.

 

[Olivencia]

You asserted that I am for beating a wife into submission. Verbal abuse doesn't fit that description and you know it.

Don't pretend that you can't beat somebody into submission verbally.

--> It wasn't qualified that way. Nice try.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Today 07:53 AM
gb93433 Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivencia
I never said give up. I wrote try another approach. Sometimes love must be tough. Jesus drove out the money changers, the same Paul who said let all that you do be done in love (1 Corinthians 16:14) is the Paul who said to Elymas that he was a child of the devil (Acts 13:8).

Driving out the money changers is not like driving out a wife unless she is violating the marriage in her behavior such as breaking the law and immorality.

--> I used that as an example of tough love. Her bad behaviour needs to be "driven out".
------------------------------------------------------------



Quote:
Granted we don't know but...based on the information given I wrote my response. If you have seen it "seldom" it does mean that it has happened.

I have seen it happen once. The man was dealing drugs.

--> Thank you. It has happened. By the way once does not at all fit the description of "seldom".
---------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
According to Ephesians 5:33 the wife is to "fear" (phobew) her husband. Based on what the article read he did try loving her with kindness but she only returned disrespect and hostility towards him. Based on his article the more he tried the worse it became.

I have seen that before. She may very well be testing him and wanting it proven to her satisfaction. She may be like a dry well or an unloved woman. That kind of behavior is very much like someone who sabotages relationships. If what you write is true then I would suggest she see someone who deals with those kind of people. People that are molested often have to deal with problems that many may not know about. Do not suggest that she see a local pastor because most are too busy and are not trained to deal with such issues. Someone I know was much like that lady and got professional help. It tok about two years of help. That person is very different today.

Until that lady realizes what she is doing she may never get better. It is doubtful she knows what love is and what it looks like.

--> Tough love will help.
-----------------------------------------------------

I would wonder what her other realtionships are like among men and women. Does she have problems with intimacy with her husband? Does she have problems in getting close to others?

--> It is a very sad situation.

 

[ccrobinson]

You asserted that I am for beating a wife into submission. Verbal abuse doesn't fit that description and you know it.

Don't pretend that you can't beat somebody into submission verbally.

It wasn't qualified that way. Nice try.

And I'm saying that it should be qualified that way.

 

[Olivencia]

And I'm saying that it should be qualified that way.

--> But the person that accused me of being for it didn't qualify it that way at all. If someone said, "He beats his wife into submission" and doesn't explain that it is merely a verbal beating then it is understood as a physical beating - something of which I have never asserted.

 

[gb93433]

I used that as an example of tough love. Her bad behaviour needs to be "driven out".

The problem is that most likely she does not see the poor behavior but rather sees the response of her husband. She may be very insecure and his hostility will not help and will only make it worse. While that may seem like that is what is needed, I see that scripture offers something else. It says that we are to approach people with gentleness. When approached with gentleness people will be more apt to listen and see us as loving.

--> Tough love will help.

Maybe, but it is doubtful. Another older woman or counselor she trusts in gentleness will do more good than her husband or any other man.

It is a very sad situation.

Sad and true but not impossible and worth working through.

 

[Olivencia]

It says that we are to approach people with gentleness. When approached with gentleness people will be more apt to listen and see us as loving.

--> He tried that myriads of times. It was turning into an absolute disaster.

 

[annsni]

Today 07:53 AM
gb93433 Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivencia
I never said give up. I wrote try another approach. Sometimes love must be tough. Jesus drove out the money changers, the same Paul who said let all that you do be done in love (1 Corinthians 16:14) is the Paul who said to Elymas that he was a child of the devil (Acts 13:8).

Driving out the money changers is not like driving out a wife unless she is violating the marriage in her behavior such as breaking the law and immorality.

--> I used that as an example of tough love. Her bad behaviour needs to be "driven out".

Can you show me one verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife? Can you show me one verse that says that a husband must "drive out" ANYTHING from his wife?

To see how a husband is to deal with a wife who is not doing what she should be doing, you might want to read Hosea.

 

[Olivencia]

Can you show me one verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife?

--> Let me just start out by saying I am not referring to physically beating. Sometimes strong language is necessary (Acts 13:10).


Can you show me one verse that says that a husband must "drive out" ANYTHING from his wife?

--> He is her master and as such she ought to obey (1 Peter 3:6). That's what one does to their master.


To see how a husband is to deal with a wife who is not doing what she should be doing, you might want to read Hosea.

--> Read Ephesians 5:22-33. Now does Christ ever correct His church? What does God do to the child of God (Hebrews 12:6)?