Marriage preparation

[annsni]

Can you show me one verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife?

--> Let me just start out by saying I am not referring to physically beating. Sometimes strong language is necessary (Acts 13:10).

Acts 13 has nothing to do with marriage. I asked for a verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife - verbally or physically.

Can you show me one verse that says that a husband must "drive out" ANYTHING from his wife?

--> He is her master and as such she ought to obey (1 Peter 3:6). That's what one does to their master.

OK - you told me what the wife's responsibility is. But I'll ask again - can you show me one verse that says that a husband must "drive out" ANYTHING from his wife?

To see how a husband is to deal with a wife who is not doing what she should be doing, you might want to read Hosea.

--> Read Ephesians 5:22-33. Now does Christ ever correct His church? What does God do to the child of God (Hebrews 12:6)?

Does Christ make His church obey? No. Instead He gave His life for her.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Unfortunately I am familiar with verbal abusers. I grew up in a family of them and I became one before God's grace revealed it to me. My marriage was nigh to being 'on the rocks' before I came to understand how to love my wife properly.

So, Olivencia, you may say all you want to about "strong language" and etc. But it just is NOT the Bible way.

 

[Olivencia]

Acts 13 has nothing to do with marriage. I asked for a verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife - verbally or physically.

--> I gave them to you. Does God discipline His church (members of the body)? Yes (Hebrews 12:6).
Ephesians 5: Christ and His church are like a husband and bride.
The church is disciplined when out of line so too ought the wife when she is out of line.
Simple.

Does Christ make His church obey? No. Instead He gave His life for her.

--> But if they don't obey discipline will be applied (Hebrews 12:6).
----------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately I am familiar with verbal abusers. I grew up in a family of them and I became one before God's grace revealed it to me. My marriage was nigh to being 'on the rocks' before I came to understand how to love my wife properly.

So, Olivencia, you may say all you want to about "strong language" and etc. But it just is NOT the Bible way.

--> No, it is not your way.

And by the way in terms of strong language you ought to be carfeful about accusing someone of advocating beating a wife into submission without qualifying it as verbal. That is deceptively misleading.

 

[annsni]

Acts 13 has nothing to do with marriage. I asked for a verse where God tells a husband to beat bad behavior out of his wife - verbally or physically.

--> I gave them to you. Does God discipline His church (members of the body)? Yes (Hebrews 12:6).
Ephesians 5: Christ and His church are like a husband and bride.
The church is disciplined when out of line so too ought the wife when she is out of line.
Simple.

Does Christ make His church obey? No. Instead He gave His life for her.

--> But if they don't obey discipline will be applied (Hebrews 12:6).

I am not individually the church - the church is the corporate body. I individually am not Christ's bride - the entire church is.

The Scriptures that you are speaking of speak of a father/child relationship - not a husband and wife. A husband does not discipline his wife. He is to lay down his life for her.

Can you show me a verse where a husband is told to discipline his wife? To make her do anything? No, you cannot.

 

[ccrobinson]

If someone said, "He beats his wife into submission" and doesn't explain that it is merely a verbal beating then it is understood as a physical beating - something of which I have never asserted.

Very well.

He is her master and as such she ought to obey (1 Peter 3:6). That's what one does to their master.

Your poor wife.

Let me be very clear on this point. The only thing you can teach anybody about marriage is how not to treat your wife. Your idea of submission sounds more like subjugation.

 

[Olivencia]

I am not individually the church - the church is the corporate body. I individually am not Christ's bride - the entire church is.

--> You are part of the bride. That being so if you need discipline you will receive it (Hebrews 12:6).

The Scriptures that you are speaking of speak of a father/child relationship - not a husband and wife. A husband does not discipline his wife. He is to lay down his life for her.

--> Then deny what Paul says in Ephesians 5. The husband is to lay down his life for her. I agree. Since he is the master of the marriage he is in charge. That is where God put him. She ought to have a teachable and correctable spirit.

Can you show me a verse where a husband is told to discipline his wife? To make her do anything? No, you cannot.

--> Duh. Open your eyes and read Hebrews 12:6.
--> "Make" her do anything? She can always refuse. That's called disobedience.
----------------------
My poor wife?
No, your poor spiritual life.
You deny what 1 Peter 3:6 says. Can't help you if you refuse to "submit" to the word of God.

Here's one for ya ccrobinson:
----- Danker on kurios - one who is in a position of authority, lord, master - a. of earthly beings, as a designation of any pers. of high position; of husband in contrast to wife 1 Pt 3:6 (A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and Other early Chrisian Literature, kurios, page 577).

Hey that's OK...keep on believing whatever you want to believe.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I luvs Harpo, God knows I do.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Let me be very clear on this point. The only thing you can teach anybody about marriage is how not to treat your wife. Your idea of submission sounds more like subjugation.

I just hope he grows out of it before he has to face HIS master.

 

[gb93433]

Read Ephesians 5:22-33. Now does Christ ever correct His church? What does God do to the child of God (Hebrews 12:6)?

It is certainly not man's way. His ways are far above our ways. It is not up to the husband to be God to his wife and nor is he to be a junior Holy Spirit to her.

God is the corrector not the woman' husband. I would be willing to bet that if I were to talk with both the husband and wife I would get a very different story.

 

[annsni]

I am not individually the church - the church is the corporate body. I individually am not Christ's bride - the entire church is.

--> You are part of the bride. That being so if you need discipline you will receive it (Hebrews 12:6).

You keep posting Hebrews 12:6 as a prooftext of your saying that God disciplines the bride. But let's read the passage:

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.


God is speaking to individuals - not the "bride", the church. He does not discipline the church but His children. I don't discipline my family but my children. You cannot say that because God disciplines His children, a husband is to discipline his wife because it it in no Scripture at all. The ONLY thing a husband is to do is to love his wife as much as Christ loved the church - love enough to lay down his life.

The Scriptures that you are speaking of speak of a father/child relationship - not a husband and wife. A husband does not discipline his wife. He is to lay down his life for her.

--> Then deny what Paul says in Ephesians 5. The husband is to lay down his life for her. I agree. Since he is the master of the marriage he is in charge. That is where God put him. She ought to have a teachable and correctable spirit.

So should the husband.

See, your focus is on "husband is the boss and he will make his wife obey" rather than the Scriptural commands that speak to each person. Scripture does not say that a wife is to make her husband do anything and it doesn't say that a husband is to make his wife do anything. Scripture addresses individuals and tells them how they should act. You cannot make your wife respect you - and you certainly won't help her if you act the way you do. A domineering husband does not get respect no matter how much he tells his wife she should give it to him.

Can you show me a verse where a husband is told to discipline his wife? To make her do anything? No, you cannot.

--> Duh. Open your eyes and read Hebrews 12:6.
--> "Make" her do anything? She can always refuse. That's called disobedience.

You are very good at taking Scripture out of context and using it for your convenience. Hebrews 12:6 says not one thing about the marriage relationship. Look again.

 

[ccrobinson]

No, your poor spiritual life.
You deny what 1 Peter 3:6 says. Can't help you if you refuse to "submit" to the word of God.

I submit to the word of God, not your bad interpretation of it.

You keep quoting 1 Peter 3:6. Does your wife call you lord or master?

And why not include 1 Peter 3:7?

Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

I find nothing honorable about how you apparently treat your wife.

 

[sag38]

I am the head of my house. And, I try to lead as such. But here's observations that I learned over the years of marriage. My wife is a pretty smart person, full of wisdom, and possessing a good knowledge of God's word. I know that she has equal access to God's throne. I do not usurp her in that privilege and couldn't even if I wanted too. Also, she has a mind and will of her own which was given to her by God and not by me. I have no right to try to change her or domineer her. Plus, I know that God has changed me but He has never domineered His position over me. Changing my wife is not my job. I'll leave that to God. Plus, I love her too much to try and make her be someone that she isn't. Here's the main thing though. My wife has intuition. She has good ideas. Plus God speaks to her and through her (sometimes directly to me). I've learned that I better listen to her or it's going to cost the two of us big time.

 

[sag38]

as unto the weaker vessel

One must be careful in interpreting this verse. It is not saying that one's wife is a weaker vessel. Rather, it says, "as unto." One's wife is not weak in any sense of the word.

I am to treat her as if she were weaker. That means using gentleness, kindness, patience, compromise. But, more so it means that I have a wonderful treasure in my wife. It's a treasure that I am to protect, cherish, and love even more than myself to the glory of God.

 

[annsni]

I am the head of my house. And, I try to lead as such. But here's observations that I learned over the years of marriage. My wife is a pretty smart person, full of wisdom, and possessing a good knowledge of God's word. I know that she has equal access to God's throne. I do not usurp her in that privilege and couldn't even if I wanted too. Also, she has a mind and will of her own which was given to her by God and not by me. I have no right to try to change her or domineer her. Plus, I know that God has changed me but He has never domineered His position over me. Changing my wife is not my job. I'll leave that to God. Plus, I love her too much to try and make her be someone that she isn't. Here's the main thing though. My wife has intuition. She has good ideas. Plus God speaks to her and through her (sometimes directly to me). I've learned that I better listen to her or it's going to cost the two of us big time.

See - when you marry the right woman, there's no reason to domineer. I married the right man and I can easily follow him because I know that his heart is focused on God and not me. If a man feels he must master over his wife, he married wrongly.

 

[annsni]

as unto the weaker vessel

One must be careful in interpreting this verse. It is not saying that one's wife is a weaker vessel. Rather, it says, "as unto." One's wife is not weak in any sense of the word.

I am to treat her as if she were weaker. That means using gentleness, kindness, patience, compromise. But, more so it means that I have a wonderful treasure in my wife. It's a treasure that I am to protect, cherish, and love even more than myself to the glory of God.

I've always understood this passage to not speak of "weak" as we think of it today but rather more delicate and precious. Similar to the comparison of a precious vase as opposed to a utilitarian bucket. The precious vase will be weaker than the bucket - but it is much more valuable.

 

[Olivencia]

annsni wrote: God is speaking to individuals - not the "bride", the church. He does not discipline the church but His children.

--> His children constitute the church.
-----------------------------------------------------
ccrobinson wrote: You keep quoting 1 Peter 3:6. Does your wife call you lord or master?

--> Yes she has and yes she believes that I am because:
That is what the Bible COMMANDS.
You and others want to ignore this then have fun being disobedient.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mexdeaf wrote: I just hope he grows out of it before he has to face HIS master.

--> I don't want to grow out of obeying what God says. I hope you grow out of making immature, outlandish and deceptive accusations.

 

[matt wade]

Yes she has and yes she believes that I am because:
That is what the Bible COMMANDS.
You and others want to ignore this then have fun being disobedient.

The Bible commands that your wife call you lord and master? Now I know for sure why you moved out of the US. You would never have found a woman here in the states to follow your stupid ways.

 

[sag38]

You are neither lord nor master of your wife. You are her husband. You didn't want a godly woman when you left the states, you wanted a slave. I feel sorry for your slave.

 

[Olivencia]

The Bible commands that your wife call you lord and master? Now I know for sure why you moved out of the US. You would never have found a woman here in the states to follow your stupid ways.

--> No, I wouldn't find one that followed the Bible and the teachings of 1 Peter 3:1-6.


You are neither lord nor master of your wife. You are her husband.

--> The Bible says it's the same thing.

You didn't want a godly woman when you left the states, you wanted a slave. I feel sorry for your slave.

--> She's thrilled to have me


---> I intend to start another thread on this specific issue and demonstrate why it is true. I will deal with FACTS. Address the facts rather than resorting to ad hominen attacks. It simply reveals the definciency of your position.

FINISHED HERE

 

[sag38]

I did not attack, I simply stated the truth. You do not want a Biblical wife, nor do you want to be a Biblical husband. You wanted someone you could lord your position over. You wanted someone who would be your personal slave. Don't be surprised one day when you wake up and you find yourself wondering where your slave went. I would counsel her to run as hard as she could and never look back.


It has already been demonstrated quite well by myself and others that your position is Biblically wrong. Starting another thread is not going to change that.