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Martyn Lloyd-Jones on Romans 5:1
- Thread starter Martin Marprelate
- Start date
When we look upon the Son, we do see the fullness of God (Colossians 2:9), yet the Son is not the Father. The Son prays to the Father; the Father does not pray to the Son. The Father sends the Son; the Son does not send the Father. The Son dies upon the cross; neither Father nor Spirit die upon the cross. Beware of Patripassionism! As little as I care for the Church Fathers in many ways, we should not throw over all the ancient creeds (Proverbs 22:28).
I am not speaking of action. I am speaking of ontology.
How is Jesus different from God?
In what attributes do you believe Jesus is different from God?
What passages speaking of God's nature are not addressing Christ's nature?
What do we know of God apart from a knowledge gained through Christ?
When we see the Son are we also seeing the Father?
Are there any aspects of God that are missing in Christ?
Jesus is a spiritual being in a fleshly body, so are you . except Jesus spiritual being is God. Jesus is no difference from God, He is God
There can be no scripture that describes God that does not describe Jesus except to show separation in Jesus purpose here as a man. It seems Jesus as God, created all, all communication to sinners, judges all and died to redeem us.
We know all judgment is the Son's but judging flesh and blood but spirits
God is a spirit, We cannot see Him but we see Jesus fresh and blood , we know the spirit, which is God The expressed image is the outward image.
No aspects of God are missing in Christ as God.As a man He humbled Himself to be as a man
There can be no scripture that describes God that does not describe Jesus except to show separation in Jesus purpose here as a man. It seems Jesus as God, created all, all communication to sinners, judges all and died to redeem us.
We know all judgment is the Son's but judging flesh and blood but spirits
God is a spirit, We cannot see Him but we see Jesus fresh and blood , we know the spirit, which is God The expressed image is the outward image.
No aspects of God are missing in Christ as God.As a man He humbled Himself to be as a man
Does Jesus have the same holiness as God?
Does Jesus have to have the same attitude towards sin as does God?
Does Jesus have "too pure of eyes to look upon sin"?
Does the Old Testament passages about the nature of God also apply to Jesus?
Does Jesus share the same sense of divine justice that belongs to God?
Does Jesus actually separate from God (or is Jesus "God with us")?
Is the wrath of God revealed against all ungodliness Jesus’ wrath?
Is the wrath of God that comes upon the sons of disobedience Jesus’ wrath?
Is God’s righteous judgment which will be revealed on “the day of wrath” Jesus’ righteous judgment?
Is God’s “cup of anger” Jesus’ “cup of anger”?
Is the wrath of God that comes upon the sons of disobedience Jesus’ wrath?
Is God’s righteous judgment which will be revealed on “the day of wrath” Jesus’ righteous judgment?
Is God’s “cup of anger” Jesus’ “cup of anger”?
The very wrath of Holy God to be poured out towards sinners was paid in full for just those whom God intended to be saved by the Cross of Christ!
One big difference though would be that Jesus also is human , and the Father and Spirit are not!
We do not see either the Father nor the Spirit though, correct?
Jesus in the Incarnation was at that time different in some sense that he was before and after, correct? As He Himself prayed to the Father in John 17 to have His former full glory be restored again?
That is all technically God the Father's, isn't it though?
The one thing you can be absolutely sure of is that there is no disagreement among the Persons of the Trinity. God is simple, not complex.
Other than that, I think it would be better to discuss this topic on the new thread that you have opened.
Thank you for the response. I do hope a tangent of my questions will be addressed on that thread. On this one, however, I am thinking of your words in post # 20.
Is there a difference between the wrath of God and the wrath of Jesus?
Why?
He is the One who seems to be in charge of what the marching orders are among the trinity, and Jesus is the One to execute them, along with Holy Spirit!
I mean, why would wrath against sin technically belong to the Father and not the Son if this wrath is based on the holiness of God? Is Jesus less holy than God? Is he less wrathful? Less loving?
We have to go by the scriptures, as it was and is the very wrath of the father to be appeased, and it took the death of Jesus to have that happen!
But that is not what the Scripture actually states. Scripture does state that Jesus is the exact representation of the Father and that in him the fullness of God dwells bodily.
Does it?
Yes, but also states that when God is used as a general term, that is pretty much always referring to the Father!
I hope we may have a discussion on this interesting subject. I note, however, that you are asking questions that are not easily answered on a forum such as this. I have learned to my cost that posts of more than about 300 words are not usually answered here. So I hope you will not play 'Twenty Questions' but enter into a genuine discourse.
No. No more than there is a difference between the justice of God, the longsuffering of God, the mercy of God and the love of God, and those of the Lord Jesus. I hope that if you reply, it will not simply be with another question but that you will deal with the other attributes of God that I have mentioned here. If not, please do not be surprised or disappointed if I don't reply.