Mary’s devotion to Jesus

[Cathode]

You guys have fallen into the classic trap of going beyond what is written.

 

[Ascetic X]

A mediator bridges two estranged parties to bring about reconciliation and peace, often guaranteeing a covenant or settlement.

A intercessor pleads, prays, or advocates on behalf of one party to another, seeking mercy or help without necessarily holding the structural office of legal reconciliation.

• Mediator:
  • Acts as a middle person to unite opposing or separated groups.
  • Establishes or restores a foundational relationship or legal peace.
  • Takes active responsibility or provides the mechanism for resolution (such as an atonement or legal contract).
• Intercessor:
  • Steps into the gap to present requests, petitions, or prayers for others.
  • Appeals to a higher authority for mercy, favor, or protection on someone else's behalf.
  • Does not replace the primary authority or bridge the legal divide directly; rather, they make a request to the one who can.

 

[Cathode]

No, that is not what Scripture says, it says there is one mediator, period. “There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim 2:5)

Read on.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,who gave himself as a ransom for all.”

Nice to have a little context to the verse.
Here we see in what way Christ was Mediator between God and man by being ransom for all which took place on the Cross.

Cherry picking and going beyond what is written are the two issues with you guys.

 

[Cathode]

No, that is not what Scripture says, it says there is one mediator, period. “There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Tim 2:5)

No, not period, comma.

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus , COMMA who gave himself as a ransom for all . Period“

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Nice to have a little context to the verse.

Paul does not divide mediation into “redeemer‑mediator” and “prayer‑mediators.” The ransom clause explains why Christ is the one mediator; it does not create additional mediators. Paul says there is one mediator between God and men, not one type, not one category, not one for redemption and others for prayer. One mediator, period. Any additional mediators are added by tradition, not Scripture. Context. Period.

 

[Mike B]

You guys have fallen into the classic trap of going beyond what is written.

Have to admit...the fightin' Baptist in me truly wants to give you an earful, however being a
new(ish) member here I will try to be polite.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament,........


It can't be made any more plain.......God told us, at least three times, that Jesus Christ is the ONLY
mediator between God and mankind.

The Catholic Church is the master and champion of made up religiosity and feigned holiness, and they
have pulled very thick wool over your eyes. The brothers here have shown you the Biblical truth, and have
made every effort to help you correct your quite obvious error. How you proceed from here is entirely
up to you.

 

[Cathode]

Have to admit...the fightin' Baptist in me truly wants to give you an earful, however being a
new(ish) member here I will try to be polite.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament,........


It can't be made any more plain.......God told us, at least three times, that Jesus Christ is the ONLY
mediator between God and mankind.

The Catholic Church is the master and champion of made up religiosity and feigned holiness, and they
have pulled very thick wool over your eyes. The brothers here have shown you the Biblical truth, and have
made every effort to help you correct your quite obvious error. How you proceed from here is entirely
up to you.

No, the brothers have cherry picked in half sentences and have deliberately avoided the context of the rest of the sentence.

They have consistently gone beyond what is written and foisted human tradition.

They have ignored dictionary definitions, root etymology, and concordance exposition which gives context and meaning.

Who knows what grave textual crimes they are capable of.

Oh the humanity.

Look I know you are only trying to be a fair mediator here, but if you could intercede for me and explain my points of contention, I would be much obliged.

All those scriptures you cited were in context of Christs sacrifice.
This is the context of Christ’s being the One Mediator between God and man.

Extending it to mean saints can’t do prayer mediation for others is going beyond what is written.

Can you tell them mate?

 

[Ascetic X]

No, the brothers have cherry picked in half sentences and have deliberately avoided the context of the rest of the sentence.

They have consistently gone beyond what is written and foisted human tradition.

They have ignored dictionary definitions, root etymology, and concordance exposition which gives context and meaning.

Who knows what grave textual crimes they are capable of.

Oh the humanity.

Look I know you are only trying to be a fair mediator here, but if you could intercede for me and explain my points of contention, I would be much obliged.

All those scriptures you cited were in context of Christs sacrifice.
This is the context of Christ’s being the One Mediator between God and man.

Extending it to mean saints can’t do prayer mediation for others is going beyond what is written.

Can you tell them mate?

Prayer is not called mediation in scripture, it is called intercession.

 

[Mike B]

Extending it to mean saints can’t do prayer mediation for others is going beyond what is written.

Can you provide a verse (from any Bible) that speaks of those you deem to be "saints" (aka: the dead)
being a heavenly mediator or intercessor between God and mankind?

As an example, let's say you are going to take a trip to Rome, Italy. You pray to St. Christopher that
you have a safe and enjoyable trip. Assuming Christopher is indeed in Heaven, and considering that
your St. Christopher has no power of his own to keep you safe, he would then go before God the
Father and ask Him to keep you safe on your journey.

When you can prayerfully, and directly, ask God to keep you safe, the above example makes no
sense at all. Do you believe that God would say "no" to you, but because Christopher asked Him
he would say "yes"? You must believe that, otherwise why would you pray to St. Christopher in the
first place?

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

No, the brothers have cherry picked in half sentences and have deliberately avoided the context of the rest of the sentence.

And what context in what sentence was avoided?

 

[Cathode]

Can you provide a verse (from any Bible) that speaks of those you deem to be "saints" (aka: the dead)
being a heavenly mediator or intercessor between God and mankind?

As an example, let's say you are going to take a trip to Rome, Italy. You pray to St. Christopher that
you have a safe and enjoyable trip. Assuming Christopher is indeed in Heaven, and considering that
your St. Christopher has no power of his own to keep you safe, he would then go before God the
Father and ask Him to keep you safe on your journey.

When you can prayerfully, and directly, ask God to keep you safe, the above example makes no
sense at all. Do you believe that God would say "no" to you, but because Christopher asked Him
he would say "yes"? You must believe that, otherwise why would you pray to St. Christopher in the
first place?

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The saints in heaven are the righteous made perfect, “the prayers of the righteous man availeth much” ,they are very powerful.
Experienced it, seen it.

So yes, the smart thing to do is to ask for the saints prayers.
The communion of saints is united as one by The Holy Spirit, those alive in Christ on earth and in Heaven. It’s not us and them, it’s all of us together.
Don’t wait till you die to realise this, the saints of heaven are willing to add their prayers to help anyone who asks them. Don’t waste the opportunity.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

No, the brothers have cherry picked in half sentences and have deliberately avoided the context of the rest of the sentence.

What context in what sentence was avoided?

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Experienced it, seen it.

Personal experience proves nothing.

 

[Mike B]

The communion of saints is united as one by The Holy Spirit, those alive in Christ on earth and in Heaven. It’s not us and them, it’s all of us together.
Don’t wait till you die to realise this, the saints of heaven are willing to add their prayers to help anyone who asks them. Don’t waste the opportunity.

Cathode, No verse? I can see your mind is set on your idolatry, so there is little sense in continuing to discuss the matter.

Regarding the "communion of saints", I did a bit of research and studied the Vatican catechism..it says this:

Paragraph 5, Part II..verse 954:

"954 The three states of the Church. "When the Lord comes in glory, and all his angels with him, death will be no more and all things will be subject to him. But at the present time some of his disciples are pilgrims on earth. Others have died and are being purified, while still others are in glory, contemplating 'in full light, God himself triune and one, exactly as he is".

WHY are they "being purified"? Is the shed blood of Jesus Christ therefore insufficient as payment (in FULL)
for the sins of mankind?

It either is, or it ain't...there is no middle ground here.

Regarding.."...while still others are in glory..." The Vatican catechism offers no biblical reference for this statement...is there one?

Let's go a step further...in the same Paragraph 5, Part II, verse 956

"956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness.... They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.... So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."

Surprised you never said anything about this, as it does not say the "saints" are the mediator, but that they
pray and ask Jesus, who then is to intercede with God the Father (for you) because the saint asked Him to.

So, you pray to the saint, who then prays to Jesus, who then brings it before God the Father. In essence,
your saint is the mediator between you and the Mediator. If you had known this, and mentioned it up-front,
then a whole lot of time others spent responding to you could have been saved. It's still horsehockey, but
at least it has some basis in Scripture.

I am sure my brothers here will correct me if I'm wrong, but the only saints in Heaven would be the Old
Testament saints that Jesus rescued from Sheol, plus Elijah and Enoch (and maybe Moses), who were translated.
Just because the Catholic church has decreed that certain people are "saints", and are no longer among the dead on
Earth doesn't mean that God agreed. That is the arrogance of the Popery....God doesn't answer to the Catholic
church.

 

[David Lamb]

Mediators are middle men, intercessor, when you pray for others to God.

“formed from the stem of mediare ("to be in the middle") and the root medius ("middle").”

That’s why mediator and Intercessor are the same thing.

When you pray for others, you are in the middle between them and God, you are a mediator. Just common sense.

What we didn’t mediate between God and man was the Redemption of all mankind that Christ alone did.
This is the one meditation being referred too that is uniquely Christ’s alone.

So all your legalism and quibbling with words is absurd in its conclusion.

Is it legalism and quibbling to believe that it is important to see how words are used in the Bible? The Bible was not originally written in Latin, so pointing to the fact that the Latin root of the the English word "mediate" is "mediare" is neither here nor there. With the Bible, the important thing is what the original Greek and Hebrew words meant, not the Latin derivation of words used in an English translation.

 

[David Lamb]

Intercession is pointless without access.

Christ’s mediation is of a higher order for redemption.

Our mediation is on behalf of those who ask our prayers to God.

Yes, the person praying or interceding has access to God:

NKJV Eph 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

But, even when we pray for the salvation of somebody, our praying does not provide the access for that person, in the way a mediator, or rather, the Mediator, does.

 

[David Lamb]

I’m amazed at the lengths people will go to avoid the obvious.

μεσίτης Mediator mesités

1.a go-between

2. (simply) a spokesman

3. (by implication) a reconciler (Intercessor )

Even strongs Greek definition uses Intercessor as a description of mediator.

Yes, the Strong's definition of mesitēs includes the word "intercessor" but in brackets after the word "reconciler":

"G3316
μεσίτης
mesitēs
mes-ee'-tace
From G3319; a go between, that is, (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor): - mediator."

Are you claiming that by our prayers, we actually reconcile people to God?

 

[Cathode]

This is simply Catholic dogma. It is not found in Scripture. It is not taught by the apostles. It is not found in the early church for centuries. The Assumption of Mary was declared a dogma by Pope Pius XII in 1950. You are not making a biblical claim, because Scripture never teaches this. You are making an unbiblical magisterial claim.

People think they understand the realities, but they really don’t, it depends on how open they are to it when shown. How they respond.

 

[Oseas3]

People think they understand the realities, but they really don’t, it depends on how open they are to it when shown. How they respond

Greetings in Christ JESUS to the true believers in Him.

Dear Brothers and Sisters

************THE LAST DECADE - 2020-2030 - COUNTDOWN************

Jun 30-2026 is the 2004th day of the LAST DECADE of the Devil's world. ->(Revelation 11:15-18, the next will not be a complete decade for this currente world. Get ready).

Pay attention. The beginning of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:24-27, is arriving. GOD will first send strong delusion that they, the rebel people of Israel and the Gentile hypocrites and idolaters unbelievers should believe a lie:-> Believe in the RULERS of the Antichrist's Kingdom, a religious and satanic kingdom(Catholicism and Judaism), first RULED by the religious and Gentilic Beast of sea, the Pope, MUCH probably the current American Pope, ruler and guide of the religious MONSTER called Roman Catholic Church, (1st half of the last week). -> Second, it will be ruled by the FALSE MESSIAH(2nd half of the last week), a false lamb->(John 5:43-47 combined LITERALLY with Revelation 6:8 and 13:11, and so on, TAKE A LOOK).

We all know that we are living in the time of Apocalypse, time of the end, and the main events of the END of the Times, in the book of Revelation(Apocalypse), begin from chapter 4 , and continues until chapter 22. Revelation 8:1 says:-> And when JESUS had opened the seventh seal, there was SILENCE in heaven (heaven? Ephesians 1:3-10, and so on) about the space of half an hour.

1 hour = 41,666... years -> 42 Years

1/2 hour = 20,833... years.-> 21 years

If we consider that the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last millennium would be in year 2000, time of the beginning the LITERAL fulfillment of Apocalypse, then the "SILENCE in heaven about the space of half an hour(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-10 and so on)" would END around year 2021. -> 7 angels are convoked FOR an important celestial EVENT or celestial ceremony.

The ceremony begins:
2 Then I saw seven angels which stood before GOD; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden CENCER; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.->(Revelation 6:9-11, JESUS opened the fifth seal, take a look)

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the PRAYERS of the saints, ascended up before GOD out of the angel's hand. -ALLELUIA!
5 And the angel took the CENCER, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. - ALLELUIA! -


The 7 angels posicione themselves to sound the trumpets
6 The seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.


The SILENCE in heaven is broken; the first trumpet sounds.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all GREEN grass was burnt up. ->(I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a GREEN bay tree.->Psalms 37:35 combined with 2Peter 3:7, take a look).

Afterwards, the second angel takes position to sound his trumpet.

Terrible and perilous times from now(2026) on.-> Luke 21:26-28. The trumpets shall sound, mainly the seventh;-> Revelation 11:15-18.

Revelation 21:8 will fulfil LITERALLY from now on:-> -> But the idolaters, and sorcerers, and all liars, fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude1:25

 

[David Lamb]

Greetings in Christ JESUS to the true believers in Him.

Dear Brothers and Sisters

************THE LAST DECADE - 2020-2030 - COUNTDOWN************

Jun 30-2026 is the 2004th day of the LAST DECADE of the Devil's world. ->(Revelation 11:15-18, the next will not be a complete decade for this currente world. Get ready).

Pay attention. The beginning of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:24-27, is arriving. GOD will first send strong delusion that they, the rebel people of Israel and the Gentile hypocrites and idolaters unbelievers should believe a lie:-> Believe in the RULERS of the Antichrist's Kingdom, a religious and satanic kingdom(Catholicism and Judaism), first RULED by the religious and Gentilic Beast of sea, the Pope, MUCH probably the current American Pope, ruler and guide of the religious MONSTER called Roman Catholic Church, (1st half of the last week). -> Second, it will be ruled by the FALSE MESSIAH(2nd half of the last week), a false lamb->(John 5:43-47 combined LITERALLY with Revelation 6:8 and 13:11, and so on, TAKE A LOOK).

We all know that we are living in the time of Apocalypse, time of the end, and the main events of the END of the Times, in the book of Revelation(Apocalypse), begin from chapter 4 , and continues until chapter 22. Revelation 8:1 says:-> And when JESUS had opened the seventh seal, there was SILENCE in heaven (heaven? Ephesians 1:3-10, and so on) about the space of half an hour.

1 hour = 41,666... years -> 42 Years

1/2 hour = 20,833... years.-> 21 years

If we consider that the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last millennium would be in year 2000, time of the beginning the LITERAL fulfillment of Apocalypse, then the "SILENCE in heaven about the space of half an hour(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-10 and so on)" would END around year 2021. -> 7 angels are convoked FOR an important celestial EVENT or celestial ceremony.

The ceremony begins:
2 Then I saw seven angels which stood before GOD; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden CENCER; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.->(Revelation 6:9-11, JESUS opened the fifth seal, take a look)

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the PRAYERS of the saints, ascended up before GOD out of the angel's hand. -ALLELUIA!
5 And the angel took the CENCER, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. - ALLELUIA! -


The 7 angels posicione themselves to sound the trumpets
6 The seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.


The SILENCE in heaven is broken; the first trumpet sounds.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all GREEN grass was burnt up. ->(I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a GREEN bay tree.->Psalms 37:35 combined with 2Peter 3:7, take a look).

Afterwards, the second angel takes position to sound his trumpet.

Terrible and perilous times from now(2026) on.-> Luke 21:26-28. The trumpets shall sound, mainly the seventh;-> Revelation 11:15-18.

Revelation 21:8 will fulfil LITERALLY from now on:-> -> But the idolaters, and sorcerers, and all liars, fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude1:25

A lot of assumptions there, for example:

"1 hour = 41,666... years -> 42 Years

1/2 hour = 20,833... years.-> 21 years"

But anyway, what has your post got to do with this thread about Mary's devotion to Jesus?