Harley4Him
New Member
Is there a policy about repeatedly posting material of suspect veracity? I'm kinda new here, but I would have expected a Christian board to have relatively high standards for citations.
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Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)
- Thread starter John3v36
- Start date
Hay guys! Don't leave me out!
I became a Catholic in 1953!
My joy is only exceeded in the fact that I married a staunch Catholic girl, and together produced seven wonderful now adult children!
And being retired, I cannot await the dawn, when I can finally arise, wake up my wife and together, partake of the holy Eucharist, daily in the Sacrifice of the Mass!
PRAISE GOD!
So there!..................
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Gloria in excelsis Deo"
(Intoned by the celebrant of the Mass.)
(The choir response.)
Et in terra pax homininus
bone voluntatis
Laudamus te
Benedicimus te
Adoramus te
Glorificamus te,
Gratias agimus tibi propter
magnum gloriam tuum.
Domine Deus, Rex Coelestis,
Deus Pater omnipotens
Domine Fili unigenite
Jesu Christe Domine Deus
Agnus Dei Filius Patris
Qui tollis peccata mundi
miserere nobis.
Qui tollis peccata mundi,
suscipe deprecationem nostram.
Qui sedes ad dexteramPatris,
miserere nobis.
Quoniam tu solus Sanctus,
Tu solus Dominus
Tu solus Altissimus
Jesu Christe.
Cum Sancto Spiritu
in gloria Dei Patris
Amen.
- The Ambrosian Gloria -
http://www.solesmes.com/sons/gloria.ram
(Real monks chanting....)
Gregorian Chant - God's music!
I became a Catholic in 1953!
My joy is only exceeded in the fact that I married a staunch Catholic girl, and together produced seven wonderful now adult children!
And being retired, I cannot await the dawn, when I can finally arise, wake up my wife and together, partake of the holy Eucharist, daily in the Sacrifice of the Mass!
PRAISE GOD!
So there!..................
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Gloria in excelsis Deo"
(Intoned by the celebrant of the Mass.)
(The choir response.)
Et in terra pax homininus
bone voluntatis
Laudamus te
Benedicimus te
Adoramus te
Glorificamus te,
Gratias agimus tibi propter
magnum gloriam tuum.
Domine Deus, Rex Coelestis,
Deus Pater omnipotens
Domine Fili unigenite
Jesu Christe Domine Deus
Agnus Dei Filius Patris
Qui tollis peccata mundi
miserere nobis.
Qui tollis peccata mundi,
suscipe deprecationem nostram.
Qui sedes ad dexteramPatris,
miserere nobis.
Quoniam tu solus Sanctus,
Tu solus Dominus
Tu solus Altissimus
Jesu Christe.
Cum Sancto Spiritu
in gloria Dei Patris
Amen.
- The Ambrosian Gloria -
http://www.solesmes.com/sons/gloria.ram
(Real monks chanting....)
Gregorian Chant - God's music!
Ray Berrian
New Member
Grace Saves,
You said, ' . . . our union is perfected in Heaven.'
Our union with Christ is perfect when we receive Christ. [John 1:12] Justification is by faith. [Romans 5:1 & James 2:23] When we receive Christ we become the sons and daughter of God. [I John 3:2]
While we remember Christ's death and endless life as we receive the Holy Communion it is not to be a ritual where we are making payments to God for our salvation. It is after all a gift. [Ephesians 2:8-9]
All true Christians need never fear that they will be abandoned by the Lord. I John 3:9 says, 'Whoever is born of God does not make a practice of sinning, because His Seed {the Holy Spirit} remains in him and he cannot practice sinning, because he is born of God. The Spirit of God is not a temporary Tenant as is pointed out in John 14:16. 'And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever.' Notice God did not say He would give a substitute for the Father, but another Person of the Godhead, the precious Holy Spirit.
Ray Berrian, Th.D.
You said, ' . . . our union is perfected in Heaven.'
Our union with Christ is perfect when we receive Christ. [John 1:12] Justification is by faith. [Romans 5:1 & James 2:23] When we receive Christ we become the sons and daughter of God. [I John 3:2]
While we remember Christ's death and endless life as we receive the Holy Communion it is not to be a ritual where we are making payments to God for our salvation. It is after all a gift. [Ephesians 2:8-9]
All true Christians need never fear that they will be abandoned by the Lord. I John 3:9 says, 'Whoever is born of God does not make a practice of sinning, because His Seed {the Holy Spirit} remains in him and he cannot practice sinning, because he is born of God. The Spirit of God is not a temporary Tenant as is pointed out in John 14:16. 'And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever.' Notice God did not say He would give a substitute for the Father, but another Person of the Godhead, the precious Holy Spirit.
Ray Berrian, Th.D.
GraceSaves
New Member
Ray,
I'm not even going to argue with you on this. I can already tell it will be a fruitless venture when you won't even bother to take my words in context.
By the way - I celebrated my one-year-as-a-Catholic anniversary yesterday.
And for the gentleman who posted the prayer by Mary Ann Collins to be free from the oppressive Catholic Church that apparently is designed to just always be taking us away from having our focus on Christ (*sigh*), here is a wonderful Catholic prayer that has really touched me:
Prayer for Union with Jesus
Come to me, Lord, and possess my soul. Come into my heart and permeate my soul. Help me to sit in silence with You and let You work in my heart.
I am Yours to possess. I am Yours to use. I want to be selfless and only exist in You. Help me to spoon out all that is me and be an empty vessel ready to be filled by You. Help me to die to myself and live only for You. Use me as You will. Let me never draw my attention back to myself. I only want to operate as You do, dwelling within me.
I am Yours, Lord. I want to have my life in You. I want to do the will of the Father. Give me the strength to put aside the world and let You operate my very being. Help me to act as You desire. Strengthen me against the distractions of the devil to take me from Your work.
When I worry, I have taken my focus off of You and placed it on myself. Help me not to give in to the promptings of others to change what in my heart You are making very clear to me. I worship You, I adore You and I love You. Come and dwell in me now.
I'm not even going to argue with you on this. I can already tell it will be a fruitless venture when you won't even bother to take my words in context.
By the way - I celebrated my one-year-as-a-Catholic anniversary yesterday.
And for the gentleman who posted the prayer by Mary Ann Collins to be free from the oppressive Catholic Church that apparently is designed to just always be taking us away from having our focus on Christ (*sigh*), here is a wonderful Catholic prayer that has really touched me:
Prayer for Union with Jesus
Come to me, Lord, and possess my soul. Come into my heart and permeate my soul. Help me to sit in silence with You and let You work in my heart.
I am Yours to possess. I am Yours to use. I want to be selfless and only exist in You. Help me to spoon out all that is me and be an empty vessel ready to be filled by You. Help me to die to myself and live only for You. Use me as You will. Let me never draw my attention back to myself. I only want to operate as You do, dwelling within me.
I am Yours, Lord. I want to have my life in You. I want to do the will of the Father. Give me the strength to put aside the world and let You operate my very being. Help me to act as You desire. Strengthen me against the distractions of the devil to take me from Your work.
When I worry, I have taken my focus off of You and placed it on myself. Help me not to give in to the promptings of others to change what in my heart You are making very clear to me. I worship You, I adore You and I love You. Come and dwell in me now.
Harley4Him
New Member
Can't be, it's waaaay too long lol
Ray Berrian
New Member
Grace Saves,
You said in your full context and paragraph, 'No force on earth is capable of removing me from my love of Jesus Christ and the relationship He so lovingly shares with me,
Ray is saying, 'I agree with your statement above, but Catholicism will tell you that a mortal sin unconfessed will separate your from Almighty God. Watch out! They will change your mind.
' . . . most especially in the Eucharist,'
Ray is saying, 'The Eucharist is only one factor in our worship of Jesus; it is not the centerfold of Divine adoration of Christ. God is speaking to the Apostle Paul said, 'as oft as ye eat this bread and drink this cup' [I Corinthians 11:26] Aparently, their celebration of Holy Communion was not every time they entered the doors of the church, but Catholicism has changed that idea.'
' . . . when He so astoundingly and continually humbles Himself to be fully and substantially present to us'
Ray is saying, 'Almighty God is astoundingly and always present to us wherever we are in our comings and goings, not just at the Table of the Lord.'
' . . . until He comes again'
Ray is saying, 'Yes, Jesus will come for His church, which is all who love and obey Him. [I Thessalonians 4:17] Theologians call this the rapture to Heaven of His saints. We agree on this point.'
You said, ' . . . and our union is perfected in Heaven.'
Ray is saying, 'Your union is perfect the moment you invite Jesus into your heart/life. [John 1:12] I think what you were trying to express was that the final phase of our salvation will be completed and perfected in Heaven. II Thessalonians 5:23 indicates this fact. Our body, soul and spirit is preserved blameless at {is the Greek word} the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the hope of the universal church, to be found in Him saved and secured forevermore.'
Dr. Berrian
You said in your full context and paragraph, 'No force on earth is capable of removing me from my love of Jesus Christ and the relationship He so lovingly shares with me,
Ray is saying, 'I agree with your statement above, but Catholicism will tell you that a mortal sin unconfessed will separate your from Almighty God. Watch out! They will change your mind.
' . . . most especially in the Eucharist,'
Ray is saying, 'The Eucharist is only one factor in our worship of Jesus; it is not the centerfold of Divine adoration of Christ. God is speaking to the Apostle Paul said, 'as oft as ye eat this bread and drink this cup' [I Corinthians 11:26] Aparently, their celebration of Holy Communion was not every time they entered the doors of the church, but Catholicism has changed that idea.'
' . . . when He so astoundingly and continually humbles Himself to be fully and substantially present to us'
Ray is saying, 'Almighty God is astoundingly and always present to us wherever we are in our comings and goings, not just at the Table of the Lord.'
' . . . until He comes again'
Ray is saying, 'Yes, Jesus will come for His church, which is all who love and obey Him. [I Thessalonians 4:17] Theologians call this the rapture to Heaven of His saints. We agree on this point.'
You said, ' . . . and our union is perfected in Heaven.'
Ray is saying, 'Your union is perfect the moment you invite Jesus into your heart/life. [John 1:12] I think what you were trying to express was that the final phase of our salvation will be completed and perfected in Heaven. II Thessalonians 5:23 indicates this fact. Our body, soul and spirit is preserved blameless at {is the Greek word} the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the hope of the universal church, to be found in Him saved and secured forevermore.'
Dr. Berrian
GraceSaves
New Member
A mortal sin is not a force on earth which sweeps me away from God against my will. A mortal sin is my own willful action, knowing the consequences of said action, that offends God and myself having no problem doing it. A mortal sin, at its core, is a personal rejection of God's love for me. That is not a force; that is my free will, which like Adam and Eve in the garden, I would use to my destruction instead of life.
No force can take me from Christ, but being a free creature, God allows me to reject Him.
There is a difference which you refuse to see.
So now the words "as often as you..." mean "not very often" or "every so often?" Paul's words do not deliniate a schedule, and could just as easily mean every time you meet. Under severe persecution, worshipping God in small, hidden places to avoid death, it's possible that the Lord's Supper may have not been celebrated at every Christian worship, but that does not mean that this was not their desire. Rather, the early Christian Church testifies greatly to the center of worship being the Eucharist. To deny this is to claim ignorance of early Chrsistian writings.
Further, with Jesus Christ actually present in His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, there is every possible reason conceivable for Him to be the center of our adoration.
You disagree in the degree of Christ's presence. However, from a Catholic point of view, you must concede that because of our belief, the Eucharist SHOULD be the center of our lives, because the Eucharist IS Jesus Christ, the living God.
Please do not insinuate that I disagree that Christ is present in other ways apart from the Eucharist. He is present in the word of God. He is present where two or three are gathered in His name. He is present when sins are forgiven, for it is His power that forgives them. He is present in our prayers when He intercedes for us to the Father. But your insinuation that Christ could not be MORE present to us in these ways baffles me, for if this is the case, you must not look forward to Heaven, because apparently being in the direct physical presense of God Almighty is nothing very important to you. Jesus Christ is God-made-man, and thus, physical. Therefore, a physical union with Him in INDEED something absolutely special and unique.
Ray, unless you are without sin, your union with Jesus is never wholly perfect (for the entirety of your life), unless you believe that your sins do not offend God. As a believer, God can forgive your sins (if you are repentant), but that does not mean God is not offended by them. Are you in Heaven now? Are you in the direct presense of God Almighty? Then your union with Him is not complete. You are still a pilgrim on earth, waiting for the glorious day when you see God face to face. We can have the most perfect union with Jesus that is possible ON EARTH, but even that is not a comparison to the union we will have with Him for all eternity in Heaven.
Dr. Ray said
How can you have a doctorate and honestly use your logic above as scholarship of early Christian historical practices? 'Aparently'? This is a knee jerk response right? You don't really believe that the early church left out the Eucharist on Sunday's do you? I know...you said everytime they walked in the door, but your statement leads one to believe that Catholics added the Eucharist as the prime focus of worship. The Eucharist was the always and always has been the prime focus of worship for the corporate church.
Even a cursory reading of the historical materials used at the Southwestern Theological Seminary (Baptist), learns that the Eucharist was the focus of early Christian worship (Justo Gonzalez - The Story of Christianity volume 1, pp. 93-94) This practice is evident in the available patristic materials from that early period. To deny this practice, is frankly, what I call 'knee jerk'.
This almost not worth responding to, but...
How can you have a doctorate and honestly use your logic above as scholarship of early Christian historical practices? 'Aparently'? This is a knee jerk response right? You don't really believe that the early church left out the Eucharist on Sunday's do you? I know...you said everytime they walked in the door, but your statement leads one to believe that Catholics added the Eucharist as the prime focus of worship. The Eucharist was the always and always has been the prime focus of worship for the corporate church.
Even a cursory reading of the historical materials used at the Southwestern Theological Seminary (Baptist), learns that the Eucharist was the focus of early Christian worship (Justo Gonzalez - The Story of Christianity volume 1, pp. 93-94) This practice is evident in the available patristic materials from that early period. To deny this practice, is frankly, what I call 'knee jerk'.
GraceSaves
New Member
I never claimed that this prayer will "save" someone, or by reciting it they will become saved. I think the prayer speaks for itself on the purpose it serves.
I never claimed that this prayer will "save" someone, or by reciting it they will become saved. I think the prayer speaks for itself on the purpose it serves. </font>[/QUOTE]When you come down through the flowery little prayers, the essence of the prayer is in the last line Come and dwell in me now, which basically is no different then the essence of the sinner's prayer.
DHK
Carson Weber
<img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">
Ray,
When I get my MA this upcoming May, can I close my posts with Master Carson?
When I get my MA this upcoming May, can I close my posts with Master Carson?
It is the centerfold of divine adoration of Christ. Now I realize, many protestant churches have newer traditions, having relegated the 'Lord's Supper' to a once every six months, symbolic, non-sacramental rememberance service. But I would as you, in your opinion, what is the centerfold of divine adoration (true worship) of Christ?
Ray Berrian
New Member
Carson,
I am proud that you will soon be getting an advanced degree. When I received my doctorate I
gave all the glory to Him for allowing me to study. I does feel good to have a college/seminary place their seal on your life and achievement.
You said, 'When I get my MA this upcoming May, can I close my posts with Master Carson?'
S.T.M. I believe stands for Master of Systematic Theology. I would jot it down on the posts and get checks at the bank made out this way too. It is a Christian witness. On my checks I have a picture of Jesus arms outstretched to the world.
Ray
I am proud that you will soon be getting an advanced degree. When I received my doctorate I
gave all the glory to Him for allowing me to study. I does feel good to have a college/seminary place their seal on your life and achievement.
You said, 'When I get my MA this upcoming May, can I close my posts with Master Carson?'
S.T.M. I believe stands for Master of Systematic Theology. I would jot it down on the posts and get checks at the bank made out this way too. It is a Christian witness. On my checks I have a picture of Jesus arms outstretched to the world.
Ray
Ray Berrian
New Member
Kathyrn,
Why do you ask?
Pastor Berrian
Why do you ask?
Pastor Berrian
Ray, I asked because you said:
Like you say, the degree is the seal of the college. Without knowing what the college is, it is hard to know if it is a degree from an accredited college or university. When you read a book and the author says he has a doctorate, they tell you where the doctorate is from on the back of the book. I am just sort of used to that.
I was married to my husband for three years before I found out he was a doctor of pharmacy. I asked him one day why USC always addressed his mail to Dr. So now I ask.
[ January 14, 2004, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
Ray Berrian
New Member
Kathryn,
I will release the information about where I have studied and graduated from when all of the other brethren also do this. Although I am not a Five Point Calvinist I will tell you that my doctorate came from a Baptist Seminary.
These degrees that people earn, in my opinion, are not to 'pump up the graduate' but are so we can understand much about Almighty God and in turn teach other sincere Christians about the truths from Scripture.
Blessings on you and yours.
Ray
I will release the information about where I have studied and graduated from when all of the other brethren also do this. Although I am not a Five Point Calvinist I will tell you that my doctorate came from a Baptist Seminary.
These degrees that people earn, in my opinion, are not to 'pump up the graduate' but are so we can understand much about Almighty God and in turn teach other sincere Christians about the truths from Scripture.
Blessings on you and yours.
Ray