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dumbox1
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I miss him already, the big galoot. 
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Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)
- Thread starter John3v36
- Start date
Adam, is that the best you have to offer. How about some serious rebuttal, with substantiating evidence. Are you up to it? </font>[/QUOTE]He is. Problem is you're not. You already told Carson that you refuse to acknowledge or read _published_ work relevant to your claims. If you're too busy to read a book why should Adam waste his time thinking you'll read a post? </font>[/QUOTE]He is up to it, as long as we don't waste his time with the same old tired and ignorant arguments. 'Scuse me while I drive a truck through that loophole...
Carson Weber
<img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">
Hi Mike,
With my workload at the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, fostering a relationship with my girlfriend, helping a group of individuals become Catholic on campus, and studying for comprehensive exams while completing my final projects before my looming graduation date, I am unable to spend much more time on this website this Spring.
If you have an open mind that isn't afraid of the learning process, I would encourage you to read Stephen K. Ray's Upon This Rock and see if, after reading it, you can still honestly say, "I think I am pretty familiar with the arguments. The Rock on which the Church is being built is Christ, and not Peter ... all of the Peter = (the) 'rock' arguments are found to be unpersuasive when looked deeply into. They are all built on specious and shallow reasoning—assuming conclusions that are founded on false premises. They are subtle enough to fool the masses, but can't stand up under scrutiny."
It's just a suggestion for you whose thesis aims to uncover the papacy. You should know the best arguments out there by reading the best Catholic apologists, and I put forward Steve as one of the best when it comes to the Petrine ministry.
With my workload at the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, fostering a relationship with my girlfriend, helping a group of individuals become Catholic on campus, and studying for comprehensive exams while completing my final projects before my looming graduation date, I am unable to spend much more time on this website this Spring.
If you have an open mind that isn't afraid of the learning process, I would encourage you to read Stephen K. Ray's Upon This Rock and see if, after reading it, you can still honestly say, "I think I am pretty familiar with the arguments. The Rock on which the Church is being built is Christ, and not Peter ... all of the Peter = (the) 'rock' arguments are found to be unpersuasive when looked deeply into. They are all built on specious and shallow reasoning—assuming conclusions that are founded on false premises. They are subtle enough to fool the masses, but can't stand up under scrutiny."
It's just a suggestion for you whose thesis aims to uncover the papacy. You should know the best arguments out there by reading the best Catholic apologists, and I put forward Steve as one of the best when it comes to the Petrine ministry.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
#1. Carson majors in "argument inabsentia" on this board as "a pattern" rather than the exception.
#2. In every case - as his argument weakens he resorts to "the book club" - as IF you might be "dialoging with the author soon".
So basically - he is asking that you recommend a library of books for him to read - as a rebuttal to the books he wants you to read. ... How "original".
For my part - I would "rather" see the devastating arguments against the errors in Catholicism posted here - and then see vaccuous responses of the form "please read another book by one of my favorite authors" - rather than a quote from said author showing some compelling response or some point or something substantive.
It gives the reader a clear picture of the strength of the debate on each side and is "instructive" to all but the most blinded devotee of tradition and mythology.
In Christ,
Bob
[ February 23, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
Harley4Him
New Member
Take it easy on Carson, Bob. I think Carson would agree that the two of you are on totally, completely, different levels of originality, intelligence, and responsiveness.
GraceSaves
New Member
You have the same sources I did. I was mistaken on the ellipsis. Other sources used it; yours does not. Which is correct?
Those links help me none in scholarship. For all I know, one posted it falsely and others copied it. If your website is authoritative, you should be able to point me to where I can find it in print to verify it and its context.
Those links help me none in scholarship. For all I know, one posted it falsely and others copied it. If your website is authoritative, you should be able to point me to where I can find it in print to verify it and its context.
Carson, there's hundreds of years of popish propaganda out there. Of course, I'm sure you believe that Stephen Ray has originated some new stuff that I need to get caught up on. I've asked you to post his arguments that you find compelling. You say that you don't have the time. I like to put my time to the best use I can as well. At the moment, I am able to use some of my time here to discuss what I consider to be important issues, and to share some of my understanding with those for whom it may be helpful.
I can see that you've been a regular participant here recently. However, if you've suddenly become unable to participate further, feel free to return when you feel that you can put some of your time to good use here.
Frankly, my opinion, at this time, is that you're dodging out. Perhaps that's the best you can do. You're presence or absence here doesn't change the truth one way or the other. I believe that I am in God's will to be here at this moment to share and discuss truth with anyone who has such an interest. If you feel that your god would have you be elsewhere, then by all means go there.
Mike
GS,
Oh, I understand, the whole world's a liar *except* the pope. OK, it's your life and conscience to live with. If you ever get tired of the darkness and the demons of deceit, ask Christ to shine His light into your life, and He will; but just don't come to Him half-steppin'.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Mike -
You're welcome.
I have to admit that among the RC posters I have found very few with a stomach for actually addressing the difficult points made in a challenge to their traditions.
Bill Putman and a very few others have provided the exception to that rule - at least they will go a short distance with detail-level discussion before they jump off into "I can't hear any more details - I have run out of responses to them".
In Christ,
Bob
You're welcome.
I have to admit that among the RC posters I have found very few with a stomach for actually addressing the difficult points made in a challenge to their traditions.
Bill Putman and a very few others have provided the exception to that rule - at least they will go a short distance with detail-level discussion before they jump off into "I can't hear any more details - I have run out of responses to them".
In Christ,
Bob
GraceSaves
New Member
GS,
Oh, I understand, the whole world's a liar *except* the pope. OK, it's your life and conscience to live with. If you ever get tired of the darkness and the demons of deceit, ask Christ to shine His light into your life, and He will; but just don't come to Him half-steppin'. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for verifying that. I was correct in my assertion. Valid references are unimportant to "scholarship" after all. Heaven forbid I ask you to verify information. Doing so makes me a follower of "demons and deceit!" Thanks for the incite.
Brother Adam
New Member
Don't worry Grant, they told Jesus that he had a demon.
GraceSaves
New Member
By the way, I just spend 15 wonderful minutes in prayer, meditating on Faith, Hope, and Love, the Holy Spirit in my life, and thanking Jesus for His glorious passion. I was actually getting a bit teary-eyed, but being at work, I wasn't going to make a scene or anything (that, and the phone kept trying to interupt me!).
I'm sorry that you think that the Holy Spirit is a demon of deceit.
I'm sorry that you think that the Holy Spirit is a demon of deceit.
GS, I posted 4 links for you, which I figured would be enough. I had a whole list of further links that use the same quote, but I thought 4 would be enough. You are so crippled by papal idolatry that you cannot bear the thought that something that is born witness to by several sources could possibly be true if it makes your 'pope' look like he was/is in error.
Therefore your crippled mind runs to take refuge in a blanket accusation—that everyone else is lying, while the 'pope' is innocent. Popery has turned you into a mental and emotional cripple, who is incapable of seeing the light, and dealing with reality.
That is what is so despicable about popery—because what they've done to you, they've done to countless others as well. May God have mercy on you and open your eyes.
Oh, BTW, does your employer allow you to post on this board on company time?
Bob, I'm fully aware that it's not an easy bondage to break out of—especially for one who was born into and raised in it. At least, that was my own experience. It is so deeply engrained into the heart that Jesus made Peter the first pope, and so on..... through today. What set me free was the reading of the Scriptures, which, of course, provide all the authority and basis upon which to place one's faith "in the Word", rather than in the whole 'church' structure. But, even with the Word, and the Holy Spirit, I still had to go through some real traumatic upheavals in my own heart and spirit. I literally had to break all the old foundations of who/what I was, and to lay a new foundation in Christ. Of course it was worth it. The passage comes to mind that says "He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we can ask or think". Beyond that, words fail.... Awesome!???
Brother Adam
New Member
Christianity is considered "bondage" as a whole, to the secular world. Let me be fully bound to Christ and his will for my life.