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Mary, mother of God

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by TP, Dec 28, 2004.

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  1. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    You ask: I cannot understand a Catholic priest wanting to waste time here when he could be minstering to those of like faith.

    Response: Well, its fun to be here .

    Also, I am here helping people to know the truth of what catholics believe. People who are noncatholic have NO clue. So I'm spreading a some truth. However, I would love to stay on topic about the mother of God. If you want to discuss why I am here or not here, please begin a new thread.

    peace
     
    #21 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  2. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    No, there is no scripture that says : "Mary is the Mother of God". However, you have not dealt with ANY of my arguements. There is also NO scripture that says: "God is Trinity". But through logic of what is given we figure it out.

    peace
     
    #22 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  3. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    He can't, Bro. Curtis, because it's not there. We can, however, point out the scripture where Jesus says...

    John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!" 27 Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.
     
    #23 dianetavegia, Dec 29, 2004
  4. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Ah, logic. Figure it out? Make it up as we go along? I think not.

    Scripture never gives Mary any godlike attributes but the RCC does and Baptist give no credence to the RCC.
     
    #24 dianetavegia, Dec 29, 2004
  5. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    I do not know what your quote is for?

    You said: We can, however, point out the scripture where Jesus says...

    John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!" 27 Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

    Response: Is this to prove that Jesus had brothers? This is John the Son of Zebedee. This is actually proof that Jesus did NOT have brothers because Jesus, at the cross entrusted his mother to someone else. NOT a brother.

    peace
     
    #25 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I didn't see a "Holy Mary, mother of God" in yer script. Try again ?

    And then we can look for "Queen of heaven", "mother of mercy", and others, but let's do one heresy at a time, shall we ?
     
    #26 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  7. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    WHERE ARE YOU coming from?? You are making assumptions all over the place.

    You said: Scripture never gives Mary any godlike attributes but the RCC does and Baptist give no credence to the RCC.

    Response: The discussion is the Title: Mary, the mother of God. There is NO godlike abilities given to mary here or anyplace. Please stick to the topic.

    Secondly, I ask you to IGNORE the catholic church at present. Pretend Catholic Theology does NOT exist. ALL mainline protestants Believe in the title Mary, Mother of God: Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, (well, at least their trained theologians do). I would also guess this would be taught in a Normal Baptist seminary. It is standard Trinitarian theology and Christology. It would be wrong, but you could even believe that Mary sinned and still use the title: Mary, Mother of God.

    peace
     
    #27 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    And I don't remember telling anyone that if they didn't know about the trinity, then they couldn't enjoy the fullness of salvation.
     
    #28 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  9. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    You said: but let's do one heresy at a time, shall we ?

    Response: You have NOT yet responded to the title: Mother of God yet. Why keep trying to change to the topic. I gave the trinitarian discussion, Either Jesus is God, or he is not. Very simple.

    Mary gave birth to Jesus. Jesus is the divine second person of the Trinity(God), Mary is the mother of God.

    To deny Mary the title Mother of God you could:
    1. Deny that mary gave birth to him(early gnostics did this)
    2. Deny that Jesus was God when he was born: God came upon Jesus Later(at baptism for instance). Some extreme nestorians believed this.
    3. Jesus was only human, not god at all. Arians believed this.
    4. But to say: Jesus was God, Mary did give birth to him, and then say she is not the mother of God is totally illogical. The only problem you have is FEAR of making mary sound important at all. YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF EVEN SOUNDING CATHOLIC that you will not accept a valid theological truth.

    peace
     
    #29 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  10. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    You said: And I don't remember telling anyone that if they didn't know about the trinity, then they couldn't enjoy the fullness of salvation.

    Response: So, non-trinitarian groups such as Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons are okay and saved in your book.

    peace
     
    #30 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  11. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Ah, so Catholics do not pray to Mary or ask Mary to interceed on their behalf to God the Father?

    No, we (normal Baptists) do NOT call Mary the mother of God. Mary is the mother of Jesus. Mary was a young woman who found favor with God, was chosen to carry the Christ child, went on to marry Joseph and have other children. She believed Jesus was the Messiah and was saved because of that belief.

    You named this topic and it's an oxymoron as God has no mother.
     
    #31 dianetavegia, Dec 29, 2004
  12. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Why do you keep changing away from Mary ? It's simple. If God the father wants us to address Mary as his mother, why ain't it in scripture ?

    Leave the trinty, mormons, and JWs out of it for a bit. Convince me God wants us calling Mary his mom.
     
    #32 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  13. TP

    TP Guest

    Greetings,

    You said: God has no mother.

    Then you said that Mary is the mother of Jesus. Mary is Jesus' Mother. God Has no Mother. Therefore Jesus is NOT God. Don't you understand that by being so afraid of the title, you are making theology WRONG.

    God has No mother. Jesus is God. Jesus has No Mother.

    By your logic: Either Jesus was NOT born of Mary, Or Jesus is NOT God. There are NO other options. Which is it?
    peace
     
    #33 TP, Dec 29, 2004
  14. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    No, my argument is that it is not God's will.

    Any hoo, this has been fun, but since you cannot prove it is God's will for us to address Mary as his mom, I will bow out.
     
    #34 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Actually, I won't bow out.

    The first line of the cathecism on Mary is....

    "The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, the mother of God."

    There is no distinction, is there ? No therefore, no ipso facto, no nothing. The mother of both, according to tradition.
     
    #35 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    When you look at this thread, I think it's a good example of why we shouldn't spend countless hours splitting hairs.

    If you understand that Jesus is God the Son, and that Mary is the mother of Jesus, but not God the Father, thencalling her the Mother of God, or the Mother of Jesus, is fine. So long as you don't infer that she's the mother of God the Father, or of God the Holy Spirit, then there's not really anything to argue over here.
     
    #36 Johnv, Dec 29, 2004
  17. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I disagree, most vehemently. If you smile & compromise one error, then the floodgates open. Soon you think that Mary somehow can help us enjoy salvation more than others.

    Is that me being a Pharasee, Johnv ?

    Our faith is worth defending.
     
    #37 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Calling Mary the Mother of God is not an error or a compromise, if one understands that it is God the Son being referred to. I don't care what the Catholic Catechism says on the topic. I don't adhere to it.

    Only if one is Romaphobic does one insist that it is an error or compromise in all instances. That is, indeed, climing the pharasaical slippery slope, imo.
     
    #38 Johnv, Dec 29, 2004
  19. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    First of all, the pharasees denied Christ was the son of God. So you cannot call me one. Call me anything else, but don't lump me in with those.

    Second, WHERE in scripture are we told to address Mary as such ? Isn't adding to scripture dangerous ? Isn't saying that I can enjoy a closer relationship with God by offering prayer to Mary blasphemy ?

    The cathecism makes no distinction. Mary is not the mother of God, so calling her so is ereror. Smiling & saying it's OK is compromise. That is a slippery slope, my friend. (And I say friend & mean it)
     
    #39 Bro. Curtis, Dec 29, 2004
  20. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Point taken. Likewise, referring to someone who referrs to Mary as the mother of God as a compromiser is equally wrong.

    Jesus is God the Son. Mary is Jesus' mother. Mary is the mother of God the Son.

    Referring to Mary as the mother of God isn't adding to scripture, so long as the understanding is that it is GOd the Son she is mother of. Only if one makes the assertion that she was mother of God the Father or God the Holy Spirit is one adding to scripture.

    I've never said that. Don't accuse me of it.

    I dont' care what the catechism says. I dont' read it, don't live by it, and it doesn't define anything for me.

    Mary is the mother of God the Son. To deny that is an error. To deny it is a compromise for the sake of not wanting to be confused with a catholic. If we compromise everything for the sake of not wanting to be confused with a catholic, we would have to give up quite a bit.
    It's appreciated, my friend (and I mean that, too).
     
    #40 Johnv, Dec 29, 2004
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