Mary, mother of God

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: Yup. You cannot prove that it is God's will, so now come the threats.

Response: Sorry, was not trying to make a treat. I was trying to be humorous. I thought I would try to lighten up the discussion a little. I apologize if you saw my comment as a threat. I was meant to be a joke.

I guess that is one of the problems of a board like this. I guess I will eventually head back to CARM where I know all the people.

peace

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If us sticking up for sound doctrine is a problem for you, perhaps you should leave. We ain't gonna stop. And I don't 'spect none of us are going to apologize to you for our attitude.

You fail to prove your point, then accuse US of having the problem. You aren't the first. It's all been said. We have heard several times that we will pay for our rejection of Christ's true church, and that we will never be able to enjoy salvation in it's truest form, we've heard it all.

This stuff is not a joke, to me.

Tell the folks over at carm that I said hi. I'm sure at least two or three of them remember me.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: If us sticking up for sound doctrine is a problem for you, perhaps you should leave. We ain't gonna stop.

Response: I would NOT expect you to stop. If you have believes, you need to follow your conscience and live those beliefs. You will get NO arguement from me there.

My goal is not to convert anyone, but rather help you to understand the Catholic Position so it is not misrepresented. I have No problem with you having your beliefs, and having a ZEAL for those beliefs. However, when my beliefs are discussed, I like them to at least be correctly represent.

As far as humor goes. I will remember you in the future that I should NOT use humor to lighten up a discussion. Did you have a different name at carm?

peace

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I've never posted on carm. But I've locked horns with many of their frequent posters here. I've even had some of my BB posts referred to Dr. Scott Hahn. But I did consider at least one guy over there a good friend, and I miss him.

As far as understanding catholic doctrine, I believe it is you who are mistaken. I doubt you know to what degree the RCC practices idolatry, and your absolute refusal to address the three "virgins" of Mexico speaks volumes.

I don't hate catholics, I doubt anyone here does. But I detest the doctrines, the power of the vatican, and the idea that tradition is equal to scripture. With every fiber of my being. Please don't take it personally.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: As far as understanding catholic doctrine, I believe it is you who are mistaken.

Response: I have studied 7 years of graduate level theology, 6 of those years in Rome. I would say I have an idea what the catholic church teaches and what it does not teach.

As far as apparitions go: Don't believe if you don't want. The church Never said that anyone ever has to believe in apparitions. Also, if anyone worships Mary, or a statue: They are in a state of Mortal sin and need to go to confession(but that is another topic)

peace

 

[JustAsIAm]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

Okay, everyone here wants to show that Mary was the Mother of Jesus' Humanity, but not his divinity. Okay, if that is the case could someone please explain HOW Jesus was born without his divinity? How did Mary give birth to Just Humanity? it is a practical question.

Why did Mary have to be the mother of Christ's divinity?? Didn't the Holy Spirit come upon Mary at Christ's conception? There is no problem with Mary being a sinner in need of salvation, and Christ, her son, being divine. His divinity did not come from Mary, it came from the Trinity (God the Father, through the Holy Spirit)

I can't see why a Catholic would have so much trouble separating the two. They are the staunchest of defenders of unborn children being "people" in their own right. Mary and Jesus were two separate individuals, even when Christ was in the womb.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: I can't see why a Catholic would have so much trouble separating the two. They are the staunchest of defenders of unborn children being "people" in their own right. Mary and Jesus were two separate individuals, even when Christ was in the womb.

Response: We cannot separate Jesus' humanity and divinity because Jesus was ONE person. The Person that Mary gave birth to was the divine son of God. By Mother I am not saying that Mary is the source of divinity, by mother I mean that Mary gave Birth to the divine person.
As far as unborn children: We would attribute "personhood" to the child. It is a person in the mothers womb being born, that is why it is so important. We don't give birth to a "what", we give birth to a "Who". So when Mary gives gives birth, we should not being asking: human or divine, we should be asking WHO is she giving birth to? Jesus Christ(Second divine person of the trinity).

peace

 

[JustAsIAm]

And because they were two separate persons from the beginning I have no problem believing that Mary gave birth to Jesus' humanity, divinity, all that he is. I am in no way trying to separate Christ from any part of his nature.

Possibly I misunderstood your reasoning that Mary would have to be free from sin at the time she carried Christ. I don't see a need for her to be saved before Christ's birth, although I see the need for us all to be saved.

 

[DietofWorms]

JustAsIAm

You have established that you fully accept and understand that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine.
Can you also answer the following questions?
Do you also accept that Jesus was the last and greatest king in the Davidic line? (Yes/No)
Furthermore, do you accept, as he himself said, that His kingdom is not of this earth? (Yes/No)
Do you accept that Jesus was both high priest and sacrifice; therefore, Jesus was in himself the new covenant? (Yes/No)
Do you accept, as Paul did, typological interpretation of scripture? (Yes/No)

TP
I recently heard a Catholic choir sing the Salve Regina, beautiful song but questionable lyrics wouldn't you say - you know from a Dulia/Hyperdulia perspective?

 

[Debby in Philly]

Remember that Jesus was not 50% human and 50% divine. He is 100% human and 100% divine, and without sin. All at the same time. The Incarnation is just as much of a "mystery" as the Trinity. Nonetheless true.

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

Okay, everyone here wants to show that Mary was the Mother of Jesus' Humanity, but not his divinity. Okay, if that is the case could someone please explain HOW Jesus was born without his divinity? How did Mary give birth to Just Humanity? it is a practical question.

You say Mary was the mother of Jesus because she gave birth to Him. I think everyone agrees. Mary gave birth to Jesus’ Humanity. Jesus’ human body existed in Mary’s womb, passed through her birth canal and was born into the world.

One of the attributes of God is His omnipresence. A god that is not omnipresent is not God. God the Son, being fully God, is obviously omnipresent. Therefore, God was never localized to Mary’s womb. God never “passed through” a birth canal. Mary did not birth God!!! .

Mary IS NOT the mother of God!!!

Mary IS the mother of Jesus, just like the Bible says!

 

[TP]

Greetings,

That is a very good discussion point: Omni-presence of God: Could I have your permission to make this a new thread for discussion? I am afraid that it might get lost deep in this thread.

peace

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

That is a very good discussion point: Omni-presence of God: Could I have your permission to make this a new thread for discussion? I am afraid that it might get lost deep in this thread.

peace

TP, certainly!