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Featured Mary, Salvation, and Sin Offering

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, May 20, 2016.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Doing what the RCC does in bowing before those idols...and kissing them to boot...is no different than bowing down to Dagon, Moloch, or Dianna.
     
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  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm, must be 'worshipping' the pope, eh???? lol The act of kneeling does not always mean that the person kneeling is performing an act of worship. Catholics kneel in front of the pope to show him respect and honor they are not kneeling to worship him.
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Look at those other pics. Praying and kissing an inanimate object is idolatry. Period. End of story.
     
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  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    So tell me about Enoch. Why was he assumed into Heaven???
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He was translated...transferred to heaven. He plesased God.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    And bowing to idols does not please God.
     
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  12. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Excerp from the following webpage: http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/num27.htm

    "Here are biblical and historical reasons why your conclusion is wrong.



    MATTHEW 1:25 AND "UNTIL"



    What does "until" mean according to the Bible? Check this out (loosly translated) --

    Gen 8:7 -- the raven "did not return TILL the waters were dried up..." Question: Did the raven return? NO!

    Deut 34:6 -- Moses died "and no one knows his grave TILL this day." Question: Have we found Moses' grave? NO!

    2 Sam 6:23 -- Michal "had no children TILL the day of her death." Question: Did she have children after she died? NO!

    1 Macc 5:54 -- "...not one of them was slain TILL they had returned in peace." Was Judas M and his troops killed when they returned? NO!

    Luke 1:80 -- John the B "was in the deserts TILL the day of his manifestation to Israel." Did John the B stay in the desert? YES! (cf. Matt 3:1; Mark 1:3-4; Luke 3:2-4)

    John 4:49 -- "Sir, come down BEFORE my child dies!" Did he die? NO!

    Rom 8:22 -- "...the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together UNTIL now." Is it still groaning? YES! <groan> :)

    1 Cor 15:25 -- "For He must reign TILL He has put all enemies under His feet." After all enemies are put away, will Christ be reigning? YES!

    Eph 4:12-13 -- "...for the equipping...for the work of ministry.... for the edifying....TILL we all come to the unity of the faith...." Once we become unified, will equipping, ministry, and edification still be necessary? YES!

    1 Tim 4:13 -- "TILL I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine." When Paul arrives, no more reading, no more exhorting, no more doctrine? NO!

    1 Tim 6:14 -- "....that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless UNTIL our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing..." When Jesus comes back, we should disobey these commandments? NO!

    Rev 2:25-26 -- "But hold fast what you have TILL I come. And he who overcomes and keeps My works UNTIL the end, to him I will give power..." Should we stop holding fast and stop obeying when Jesus returns? NO!

    Okay, that shows Matt 1:18,25 does not disprove the perpetual virginity of Mary. For positive biblical evidence that Mary intended to remain a virgin even in marriage, why would she ask the angel Gabriel --

    "How can this be, since I do not know a man?" (Luke 1:34)"
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry but veneration would be worship in this case. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school. I know worship when I see it. I don't know of any one person who prays to the Bible but I know millions pray to "saints" and Mary.

    I agree that we won't agree but I can safely say that what the Catholic church does is clear cut idolatry.
     
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  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Each of these "till" have an end point listed and then the command changes, does it not? Of course it does.
     
  15. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I have not read the entire thread, but I have read more than one post accusing Catholics of 'praying to dead people'. If the saints that died in the body are also dead in the soul then how does one explain Rev 6:9-10 " And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (holy and true) dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" ? How does one explain Elijiah and Moses coming back to earth: " And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him." Matt 17:3 ?
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The entire event is future. John was "transported" to heaven looking at what is happening or going to happen in the future. He has been given the ability to see what the human eye cannot see.

    Dead refers to the body. The only one that has risen from the dead is Jesus Christ. He alone in this sense is "alive." Mohammed is dead; he is the grave. Confucius is dead; his body lies in the grave. Buddha is dead. He is in the grave.
    But if you look into the tomb of Jesus you find it empty. He is not there. He is risen. He is alive. He is risen from the dead.

    However, we await the redemption of our bodies. Our resurrection has not yet taken place.
    One doesn't go into the cemetery and pray TO their great grandfather or great grandmother or other relatives. They have that knowledge that they are dead, and if saved they will see them in heaven some day. We cannot pray to them. Neither can we pray for them. They are dead.
     
  17. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    In all the parishes I have been I have never seen such things happen. The closest we have come is the veneration of the Cross, the very same type of Cross used to hang our Savior on. I don't particularly like what is shown in those pictures, but if that is the worst thing that happens it's no big deal to me - I don't engage in such actions. I believe that from the Apostolic Succesion right down to how we worship with Jesus being the focus of the Mass and with his real presence in the Holy Eucharist, the Catholic Church is more right than wrong on all the pivotal Christian issues and biblical teachings.
     
  18. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    As I said before I don't care for this sort of thing but, who were they praying to and what was in their minds as they did this? Did any of them think the statue was God and were they worshipping the statue? I don't think so.

    Now let's go to the Scriptures and see in one of the great commandments where God says that no graven images should be made - period! He then orders that the images of the Cherubim be affixed to the Ark of the Covenant. Call me crazy, but am I seeing some sort of contradiction here?
     
  19. SovereignGrace

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    However, Peter, James, and John neither prayed to, or worshipped Moses and Elias(Elijah).
     
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  20. SovereignGrace

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    None were commanded to bow to those cherubim either. But the RCC bends their knees at every statute they come to it seems.
     
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