Mass Man Fired Over Views on Gay Marriage

[annsni]

If I owned a business that would certainly be the case, but if Christians are to have the freedom to hire and fire whom they want in their business then we must give that same freedom to non-Christians.

I would not fire someone in a store that I owned for believing in same sex marriage. That would make me the thought police. I can prevent someone from wearing anything that is against store policy and I would need to police that across the board for everyone. But I would never fire someone for a belief they held. That's wrong in ANY book.

 

[KenH]

I don't know that Christians have any such right if they own a business, especially in a state like Mass. Christians cannot fire someone on the grounds that that person expresses support for gay unions.

I know they can't. But they should be able to. Any business owner should be able to hire or fire whom he/she wills.

 

[Marcia]

Well....you support the laws of Mass., N.J., or whatever.
I'll go by what God says.
More power to you. (As we used to say in the '60's)
We'll see who wins, God, or the homosexual laws.
Good luck

You don't get what I'm saying at all. I do not support laws that say an employee can openly express support for gay marriage but an employee who is against this cannot express this. I am saying this is the way it is in some places and we will see more of it. So far, no one here seems to mind or else they are not getting it.

 

[Marcia]

I know they can't. But they should be able to. Any business owner should be able to hire or fire whom he/she wills.

The whole point of this thread, which nobody seems to have understood, is that things are changing. It's not a debate about what should or shouldn't be; it's what is.

I thought I was expressing my point pretty clearly. Guess not.

Here it is again:
Laws are being changed such that a person who expresses opposition to gay marriage/unions can be fired, whereas a person who expresses support for such unions is not fired.

 

[Nonsequitur]

The whole point of this thread, which nobody seems to have understood, is that things are changing. It's not a debate about what should or shouldn't be; it's what is.

I thought I was expressing my point pretty clearly. Guess not.

Here it is again:
Laws are being changed such that a person who expresses opposition to gay marriage/unions can be fired, whereas a person who expresses support for such unions is not fired.

NO!
I understood.
I will still fight.
It is still my company.
It is still my money.
I'll fight to the end.
LAWS?

 

[hillclimber1]

The gay crowd, et al, have come a long way out of the closet, haven't they. In the last days perilous times will come.. II Tim 1-4

 

[Marcia]

The gay crowd, et al, have come a long way out of the closet, haven't they. In the last days perilous times will come.. II Tim 1-4

Yes, I recall when the argument was that people wanted to be able to do what they do in private. Then it was teaching it in the schools (that was at least 12 or 13 yrs. ago in this area). Now it's being forced on us through law so that speaking out against this can be a reason for being fired, and probably in the future, not being hired.

Also, companies and business owners pretty soon will have to provide benefits to partners of same sex couples. This is already done by most of the largest companies.

 

[Johnv]

I think you are wrong. I do not think a Christian bookstore owner can fire someone for being for gay marriage. But a secular store owner can fire someone for being against gay marriage.

Since a Christian bookstore is a for-profit business, the owner cannot fire someone for just being gay, but a Christian bookstore owner can fire someone for expressing views favoring gay marriage is the bookstore's position is against gay marriage.

In fact, a Christian camp in NJ lost their tax exempt status because they would not accommodate gay couples.

Not exactly. The Christian camp in question was operating on public lands. The camp denied a gay couple from holding a civil union on public land with the camp used. If it were privately held land owned by the camp, they would have been allowed to deny them access, but you can't deny people access to public land based on their sexual orientation.

 

[Marcia]

Since a Christian bookstore is a for-profit business, the owner cannot fire someone for just being gay, but a Christian bookstore owner can fire someone for expressing views favoring gay marriage is the bookstore's position is against gay marriage.

I don't think so. In the eyes of the law a Christian bookstore is just a bookstore. It has no special privileges.

Not exactly. The Christian camp in question was operating on public lands. The camp denied a gay couple from holding a civil union on public land with the camp used. If it were privately held land owned by the camp, they would have been allowed to deny them access, but you can't deny people access to public land based on their sexual orientation

Well, if the DC marriage bill passes, caterers and photographers who refuse to contract with gay couples can be sued.

 

[matt wade]

This is totally "thought police". So in other words, one can say something about a particular topic but someone else cannot? So, do we allow only those who are Democrat to speak about politics but not Republicans? Do we allow pagans to speak about "Mother Earth" but Christians can't say anything?

This is unconstitutional. I guarantee it. I don't care what they say - saying that a person does not accept homosexuality as normal or right is not "offensive" and worthy of firing someone over. Take it to court and this person should win. If he must be quiet, then NO talk of homosexuality should be allowed in the store.

You are correct. As a business owner, I will regulate speech within my business. If a customer, client, or employee starts advocating sins against God, I will deal with them as I see fit. That may be done first as a warning, or I may just kick them out right away. I really couldn't care less what the law on the subject is. As a Christian, I won't tolerate people advocating sin against God in my home, business, or any other property of mine.

"....but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

[pinoybaptist]

If I owned a business that would certainly be the case, but if Christians are to have the freedom to hire and fire whom they want in their business then we must give that same freedom to non-Christians.

The guy was provoked, ken. he did not immediately voice out his opinions against gay marriage.
The article says the gay party sensed his discomfort and kept bringing up the subject to him until he had to voice out his opinion and stand against gay marriage.
Seems to me harassment came from the other end.

 

[annsni]

You are correct. As a business owner, I will regulate speech within my business. If a customer, client, or employee starts advocating sins against God, I will deal with them as I see fit. That may be done first as a warning, or I may just kick them out right away. I really couldn't care less what the law on the subject is. As a Christian, I won't tolerate people advocating sin against God in my home, business, or any other property of mine.

"....but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

But is this correct?

IF an empolyee is PROMOTING a sin, then I would deal differently.

However, two employees are discussing beliefs in things and both are giving their opinions. One has an opinion different from your own. Do you then fire him? Once again, this is the "thought police". Then what happened in this case was 100% right in your eyes. It is not in mine. If I had a shop, and I was to hire someone, I'd not ask for their religious beliefs ahead of time. I'd hire them because they were qualified. Through their employment, I'd discuss Christ with them and NOT penalize them for what they believe. They believe homosexuality is OK? That's their personal beliefs and I WILL not punish them for that. I WILL, however, spend time discussing why the Bible says it is wrong and I will ask that they not promote homosexuality on the job. If they speak to other employees in discussions on the topic, that's fine, but I would not want them to start campaigning for homosexuality.

So bottom line is that I would not fire someone for their beliefs. Ever. UNLESS they used my store to promote an agenda.

Hey, I believe in the post-trib rapture but my pastor believes in pre-trib. Should he fire me because I believe differently than him? He believes that Christians should never drink any alcohol but I believe responsible alcohol consumption is OK. Should he fire me?

 

[KenH]

Seems to me harassment came from the other end.

Based on the story, I agree.

 

[Johnv]

I don't think so. In the eyes of the law a Christian bookstore is just a bookstore. It has no special privileges.

If run as a business, then it's a business, regardless of whether it's a Christian bookstore, a Jewish bookstore, etc. If a Jew worked for a Christian bookstore, and was making disparaging comments about Christianity, that person can be fired with cause. Likewise, if a homosexual worked for a Christian bookstore, and was making comments supporting gay marriage, that person can be fired with cause. If, OTOH, a gay or Jewish employee supports the business, then they shouldn't be allowed to be fired due to their religious or lifestyle choice. I'd rather hire a hardworking atheist than a lazy Christian any day.

 

[carpro]

This Christian man was fired from a Mass. Brookstone store because, after a manager from another store told him she was marrying a woman, and kept saying this to him, he finally expressed not agreeing with this.

The store terminated him with a letter. Basically, he was fired because expressing a view that gay marriage is wrong in a state where it's legal is considered grounds for termination.

Please read the brief article and see the video where the man tells the story. He also reveals that the Brookstone Company showed a film to employees that tells them that expressing even informal disagreement with homose*ual behavior can be considered offensive behavior.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/09d/vadala/index.html

Unless that is written company policy and they can prove he is in receipt of it, it is a wrongful termination.

Additionally, if it is a written policy and can be proven that both are in receipt of the policy, the complaining person should be terminated, as well, for repeatedly baiting him to respond.

If they don't fire both of them, they should give a written reprimand to both of them and let it go.

 

[annsni]

I hope they fire everyone who disagrees with any law in place in that state. What if one disagrees that snoring should be against the law and they support snoring? Yes, it's illegal to snore in MA. Or what about the law prohibiting kissing in front of a church? Say something about that and do you get fired?? I think that's when this gets ridiculous. They're not firing because someone disagreed with something that is legal but because they are not politically correct. Period.

But then again, I'm SURE it's quite OK to demean Christians. You won't get fired for that.

 

[targus]

My guess is that there is more than meets the eye here.

In my experience business keep good employees when they are able and dump poor employees when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[matt wade]

IF an empolyee is PROMOTING a sin, then I would deal differently.

However, two employees are discussing beliefs in things and both are giving their opinions. One has an opinion different from your own. Do you then fire him? Once again, this is the "thought police".

Expressing an opinion that advocates sin is promoting sin. Yes, if someone in my business expressed an opinion that they thought it was OK to sin against God, they would get fired. Likely I'd warn them first and if they kept it up they would be fired. Yes, in my business I am the "speech police". People can "think" whatever they want as long as they keep it in their thoughts.

So bottom line is that I would not fire someone for their beliefs. Ever. UNLESS they used my store to promote an agenda.

I would. I wouldn't ever hire someone that isn't a Christian either though. I really couldn't care less if it is against the law or not.

Hey, I believe in the post-trib rapture but my pastor believes in pre-trib. Should he fire me because I believe differently than him? He believes that Christians should never drink any alcohol but I believe responsible alcohol consumption is OK. Should he fire me?

You should rethink the church you go to if you differ on these issues from your pastor. You should be in one accord.

 

[just-want-peace]

Matt sez:

You should rethink the church you go to if you differ on these issues from your pastor. You should be in one accord.

Boy, that's harsh!! I sure hope you aren't married; but if you are and the two of you don't have some differences more serious than this , then one of you is un-necessary!:tongue3:

 

[OldRegular]

Dare I say that it is all about political Correctness?:tonofbricks::tonofbricks: