Matthew 15:24 Rewrite?

[KatieScarlett]

Hello KatieScarlett!

The Greek word translated as "appointed" is "tasso" (G5021) which has as its meaning a "mutually agreed upon arrangement" thus to agree with the Gospel's requirements or by mutual agreement.

So a more accurate rendering might be, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as had agreed with the Gospel's requirements for everlasting life, believed.

The Greek word appears about 8 times in the New Testament and each time "mutually agreed upon arrangement" provides the contextual idea.

Matthew 28:16 - "...which Jesus had [mutually arranged]."

Luke 7:8 - "...for I am a man [mutually arranged] under authority...."

Acts 13:48 "...as many as had [mutually agreed with the requirements] for everlasting life, believed.

Acts 15:2 "...debate with them, they {mutually agreed] that Paul and...."

Acts 22:10 "...everything that has been [mutually arranged] for you to do."

Acts 28:23 "[when they mutually arranged] a day for Paul...."

Romans 13:1 "...which exist are [mutually arranged] by God."

1 Corinthians 15:16 "...and [have mutually arranged] themselves for ministry...."

A different Greek word (G5087) always means a unilateral arrangement, something ordained, determined and established.
It may be that those conflating the two words, do so due their agenda driven bias.

Thanks for your kind response.

I can't agree but accept that it is provided in good stead.

I'm not using a different Greek word.

In FACT, HERE is the breakdown from BLB.

1. to put in order, to station
   
   1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
      
      1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
         
   2. to appoint, ordain, order
      
      1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
         
      2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon
         

Only example 2 uses mutually agree.

God Speed

 

[JD731]

I feel like the Publican being berated by the Pharisee. Who made you hall monitor.

Try addressing the topic.

1) The correct translation of Matthew 15:24 is consistent with the context. The errant traditional translation is inconsistent with the context. Recall the Canaanite woman.

2) Every translation renders God's word differently, the NASB differs from the NKJV. To claim one translation choice "rewrites God's word" is the height of stupidity. The difference reflects a different choice in translation. "Eis" can mean "to" or "among" To go with either is not rewriting God's word, but it is interpreting God's word.

3) If Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, then He sinned by saving her daughter. But if He was sent not only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel, then His action reflects the will of God.

4) Jesus was not sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel!! As the Lamb of God, He became the means of reconciliation for all the lost sheep, Jews and Gentiles.

Romans 8:36 NASB
(As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”

I am commenting on the underlined sentences;

Here are every one of the passages (13) where the context is the same, to lose. This assumes that what was lost was a possession.

Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost <622> sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost <622> sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost <622>.
Lu 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost <622>, until he find it?
Lu 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost <622>.
Lu 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost <622>.
Lu 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost <622>, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Lu 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost <622>, and is found.
Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost <622>.
Joh 6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost <622>.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost <622>, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost <622> none.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost <622>:

Notice that the one time the apostle used this word in this context was in 2 Cor 4. For those of you who can tell the rest of us what 2 Cor chapter 3 says without looking at it, then you are not likely to think that Paul is referencing gentiles in 2 Cor 4:3. Those who do not know what 2 Cor 3 says can probably be taught about anything from chapter 4 and not know and care about the context. So read 2 Cor 3 and note the first word in 2 Cor 4:1. The word is "therefore."

Question
What is the purpose of the word therefore?

Answer
You use therefore to introduce a logical result or conclusion.

What is the meaning of therefore?
The definition of 'therefore' is: in consequence of that. The meaning of 'therefore' also includes for that reason and as a result. To that end is another meaning of 'therefore'.

Therefore - Adverb.

The gentiles have never been the possession of God like Israel was the possession of God and therefore gentiles cannot be lost. Those of Israel can be lost because they are the possession of God through covenant relationship. Posters on this forum say that gentiles are lost but God doesn't.

Ep 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Pointing this out to you fellows will have zero effect and tomorrow you will have the same arguments because the Bible is not your primary authority for your doctrines usually.

Members of the family of Israel are the only people who can be lost as lostness is defined in the context of scriptures.

 

[KatieScarlett]

I am commenting on the underlined sentences;

Here are every one of the passages (13) where the context is the same, to lose. This assumes that what was lost was a possession.

Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost <622> sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost <622> sheep of the house of Israel.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost <622>.
Lu 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost <622>, until he find it?
Lu 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost <622>.
Lu 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost <622>.
Lu 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost <622>, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Lu 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost <622>, and is found.
Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost <622>.
Joh 6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost <622>.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost <622>, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost <622> none.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost <622>:

Notice that the one time the apostle used this word in this context was in 2 Cor 4. For those of you who can tell the rest of us what 2 Cor chapter 3 says without looking at it, then you are not likely to think that Paul is referencing gentiles in 2 Cor 4:3. Those who do not know what 2 Cor 3 says can probably be taught about anything from chapter 4 and not know and care about the context. So read 2 Cor 3 and note the first word in 2 Cor 4:1. The word is "therefore."

Question
What is the purpose of the word therefore?

Answer
You use therefore to introduce a logical result or conclusion.

What is the meaning of therefore?
The definition of 'therefore' is: in consequence of that. The meaning of 'therefore' also includes for that reason and as a result. To that end is another meaning of 'therefore'.

Therefore - Adverb.

The gentiles have never been the possession of God like Israel was the possession of God and therefore gentiles cannot be lost. Those of Israel can be lost because they are the possession of God through covenant relationship. Posters on this forum say that gentiles are lost but God doesn't.

Ep 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Pointing this out to you fellows will have zero effect and tomorrow you will have the same arguments because the Bible is not your primary authority for your doctrines usually.

Members of the family of Israel are the only people who can be lost as lostness is defined in the context of scriptures.

I believe the words but cannot agree with such divisive ideas.

Ephesians 2:10-14
Legacy Standard Bible

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

11 Therefore, remember that formerly you—the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time without Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition

 

[canadyjd]

I believe the words but cannot agree with such divisive ideas.

Ephesians 2:10-14
Legacy Standard Bible

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

11 Therefore, remember that formerly you—the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time without Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition

Welcome to the BB. I look forward to reading more of your comments.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Thanks for your kind response.

I can't agree but accept that it is provided in good stead.

I'm not using a different Greek word.

In FACT, HERE is the breakdown from BLB.

1. to put in order, to station
   1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
      1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
   2. to appoint, ordain, order
      1. to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
      2. to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon

Only example 2 uses mutually agree.

God Speed

The issue is which of the meanings reflects the context in the eight usages where the word appears.
I showed how mutually agreed with the designated requirements fits in every case.

 

[Van]

SNIP
The gentiles have never been the possession of God like Israel was the possession of God and therefore gentiles cannot be lost.
SNIP
Members of the family of Israel are the only people who can be lost as lostness is defined in the context of scriptures.

This "taint so" post supposedly responded to:

3) If Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, then He sinned by saving her daughter. But if He was sent not only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel, then His action reflects the will of God.

4) Jesus was not sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel!! As the Lamb of God, He became the means of reconciliation for all the lost sheep, Jews and Gentiles.

Thus your overly long copy and paste, did not say how Jesus could heal the puppy, if He was only sent to the Jews, without the action going against God's direction.

Next you simply repeated your claim, that all those heading for destruction were not "lost" due to the consequences of the Fall.

 

[JD731]

I believe the words but cannot agree with such divisive ideas.

Ephesians 2:10-14
Legacy Standard Bible

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

11 Therefore, remember that formerly you—the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time without Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition

Divisive ideas, eh?

There is zero chance that you and I will ever come to the same conclusion concerning the reasons the Lord wanted this incident with this woman in Mat 15 recorded during this phase of his ministry in the world, which is after his nation condemned him to death.. What does the Lord want me to learn from this?

Matt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

What is the chances that this nation is going to receive Jesus as Messiah and King after this? Maybe you think God did not send him to Israel to be their Messiah and King? Maybe you think there was no transition in his ministry at this point of deadly rejection by his nation.

Matthew 16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
John 20
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Reconcile those two passages and their time lines. Well, I will come to a different conclusion than you because your Bible may not even say those things. We are not reading the same words and the words we are reading have different values for us. l will be driven to different comparisons than you.

But my Bible was an accepted authority from God by the people of God for centuries before your words in your Bible became acceptable to people like you. It is you who has brought the division here. I am asking you to consider words that you do not have and to make comparisons of words in different books to find the spiritual meaning of the God who only can make sense out of this book.

The modern doctrines of the Bible is one of the predicted "doctrines of devil," a warning that shows up in my Bible, and as much as I like you I have to tell you that you are presenting strange words to me. If it is any comfort to you, many on this forum are doing the same thing. You are the divider.


.

 

[Van]

Mr. Martin Marprelate continues to post falsehood.

Here is what I presented:

Here is an effort to provide a word or phrase meaning for word or phrase meaning translation of Matthew 15:24:

Yet - the - answer- He said - I was not sent - only - into - the - lost - sheep - of the house - of Israel.

Now I know we have others believing their translation is more accurate, but I am curious as to which part?

One post claimed the translation of "only" was invalid, as the Greek phrase could not mean "only" However dozens of translations render the phrase as "only."

An off-shoot of the argument against "sent not only among the lost sheep" was a claim that the lost sheep of the house of Israel actually referred to everyone redeemed by Christ. The traditional view is that the house of Israel refers to Jews.

Mr. Marprelate falsely claims this construction of "El me" never means "only." He ignores all the published translations that render the phrase "only."

 

[JD731]

This "taint so" post supposedly responded to:


Thus your overly long copy and paste, did not say how Jesus could heal the puppy, if He was only sent to the Jews, without the action going against God's direction.

Next you simply repeated your claim, that all those heading for destruction were not "lost" due to the consequences of the Fall.

The reason I said that you do not fit on this forum is because it is not for men who hold the office of prophet. There are no other prophets here. A prophet is a man who is ordained of God to bring new words from him to give to the people. This seems to be your calling. You are giving us all kinds of new stuff. You need to publish your new prophecy in a book and call it "VAN."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Mr. Martin Marprelate continues to post falsehood.

Here is what I presented:

Here is an effort to provide a word or phrase meaning for word or phrase meaning translation of Matthew 15:24:

Yet - the - answer- He said - I was not sent - only - into - the - lost - sheep - of the house - of Israel.

Now I know we have others believing their translation is more accurate, but I am curious as to which part?

One post claimed the translation of "only" was invalid, as the Greek phrase could not mean "only" However dozens of translations render the phrase as "only."

An off-shoot of the argument against "sent not only among the lost sheep" was a claim that the lost sheep of the house of Israel actually referred to everyone redeemed by Christ. The traditional view is that the house of Israel refers to Jews.

Mr. Marprelate falsely claims this construction of "El me" never means "only." He ignores all the published translations that render the phrase "only."

There are only so many times I can show you the same thing.
I leave you to your ignorance.

 

[kyredneck]

There are only so many times I can show you the same thing.
I leave you to your ignorance.

@Van's ignorance has a handle on the BB: 'Vanology'

"Righteous faith"

Harmony or Hostility?

Given, Granted or Allowed?

 

[Van]

The reason I said that you do not fit on this forum is because it is not for men who hold the office of prophet. There are no other prophets here. A prophet is a man who is ordained of God to bring new words from him to give to the people. This seems to be your calling. You are giving us all kinds of new stuff. You need to publish your new prophecy in a book and call it "VAN."

A post without merit, claiming my bible study results add to scripture. A vile false claim

 

[JD731]

A post without merit, claiming my bible study results add to scripture. A vile false claim

when a man says he does not believe any Bible he reads and concludes they are all wrong, then adds his own words, don't be upset when someone calls you a prophet. What else can you be? You are not teaching the words you have, you are supplying words to be taught. What is a better definition of a prophet?

 

[Van]

@Van's ignorance has a handle on the BB: 'Vanology'
SNIP

People who have nothing to say resort to name calling. Behold the fruits of the Doctrines of Disgrace.

Here is an effort to provide a word or phrase meaning for word or phrase meaning translation of Matthew 15:24:

Yet - the - answer- He said - I was not sent - only - into - the - lost - sheep - of the house - of Israel.

Now I know we have others believing their translation is more accurate, but I am curious as to which part?

One post claimed the translation of "only" was invalid, as the Greek phrase could not mean "only" However dozens of translations render the phrase as "only."

An off-shoot of the argument against "sent not only among the lost sheep" was a claim that the lost sheep of the house of Israel actually referred to everyone redeemed by Christ. The traditional view is that the house of Israel refers to Jews.

Mr. Marprelate falsely claims this construction of "El me" never means "only." He ignores all the published translations that render the phrase "only." See 1 Corinthians 7:17 (ESV, NASB, MOUNCE, and WEB)

Or Luke 4:26, where Elijah was "not sent to them, but only to ...." Whether the translation is "but only" or just "only" the meaning of "El me" of "only" is accepted.

 

[Van]

when a man says he does not believe any Bible he reads and concludes they are all wrong, then adds his own words, don't be upset when someone calls you a prophet. What else can you be? You are not teaching the words you have, you are supplying words to be taught. What is a better definition of a prophet?

Once again a post addressing me, rather than the topic. It is difficult to discuss an interpretation of scripture with "my way or the highway" posters.

 

[kyredneck]

Here is an effort to provide a word or phrase meaning for word or phrase meaning translation of Matthew 15:24:

Yet - the - answer- He said - I was not sent - only - into - the - lost - sheep - of the house - of Israel.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

Christ came as Prophet, Priest, and King. As Prophet to Israel in her last days He had nothing to say to non-Jews:

Gill:
"...as a priest, or as a Saviour and Redeemer, he was sent to make satisfaction and atonement for the sins of all God's elect, and to obtain eternal redemption and salvation for all of them, whether Jews or Gentiles; but as a prophet, in the discharge of his own personal ministry, he was sent by his Father only to the Jews; he was the "minister of the circumcision", Romans 15:8..."

Paul:
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers, Ro 15

 

[Van]

SNIP

1) Is the fact that Jesus sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Nope.

2) Is the fact that Jesus was sent among the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Nope

3) Is the fact that Jesus was not sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Yes, but not by me.

 

[Van]

Has the false claim that "El me" never means "only" been retracted? Nope.

Is the well accepted translation of 1 Corinthians 7:17 claimed to be wrong when it translates "El me" as "Only?"
Is the well accepted translation of Luke 4:26 of El me as only or but only denied? Who knows

How about Galatians 1:7? Who knows.

Ditto Revelation 21:27

 

[KatieScarlett]

Divisive ideas, eh?

There is zero chance that you and I will ever come to the same conclusion concerning the reasons the Lord wanted this incident with this woman in Mat 15 recorded during this phase of his ministry in the world, which is after his nation condemned him to death.. What does the Lord want me to learn from this?

Matt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

What is the chances that this nation is going to receive Jesus as Messiah and King after this? Maybe you think God did not send him to Israel to be their Messiah and King? Maybe you think there was no transition in his ministry at this point of deadly rejection by his nation.

Matthew 16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
John 20
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Reconcile those two passages and their time lines. Well, I will come to a different conclusion than you because your Bible may not even say those things. We are not reading the same words and the words we are reading have different values for us. l will be driven to different comparisons than you.

But my Bible was an accepted authority from God by the people of God for centuries before your words in your Bible became acceptable to people like you. It is you who has brought the division here. I am asking you to consider words that you do not have and to make comparisons of words in different books to find the spiritual meaning of the God who only can make sense out of this book.

The modern doctrines of the Bible is one of the predicted "doctrines of devil," a warning that shows up in my Bible, and as much as I like you I have to tell you that you are presenting strange words to me. If it is any comfort to you, many on this forum are doing the same thing. You are the divider.




.

 

[JD731]

1) Is the fact that Jesus sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Nope.

2) Is the fact that Jesus was sent among the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Nope

3) Is the fact that Jesus was not sent only among the lost sheep of the house of Israel in dispute? Yes, but not by me.

Among the lost sheep of the house (family) of Israel is a given, if God sent Jesus "to" the lost sheep of the house of Israel only, like he says. The operative word is the word "to." It is a sin to change this word. The sin is taking away and adding to the word. This sin comes with an awful curse.

Now, we establish that, the question is "why" was he sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel even after he had interaction and gave a blessing to a gentile woman. Remember first, no promises to gentiles in the OT so what he did for the gentile woman was not to fulfill a pledge but was a matter of grace.

None of you guys are going to believe what Jesus said on the day of his resurrection as he conversed with these men who had lost hope that he was the Messiah. But this is what he said to them.

Lk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Had Israel received him instead of rejecting him then here is how his offices would have played out.

1) He would have been a prophet for the first 7 years of his ministry on earth and would have died at the hands of gentiles
2) He would have been a Priest before God during the 40 years to complete his generation during which time he would have purified the nation.
3) at the end of his generation in 70 AD he would have come back in glory and established his kingdom over all the earth and ruled from Jerusalem as King over all the earth. All three of the office would then be combined in one man at the same time and for all time. Combining these office in one man was forbidden in the OT and was the reason Saul lost dis dynasty.
.