quantumfaith
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matthew 22 Parable wedding Feast/many called few chosen!
- Thread starter DaChaser1
- Start date
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The difinition for salvation is "a deliverance". You must pay close attention when reading salvation scriptions to determine what it is saying you are to be delivered from. Eternal salvation is being delivered from this present sinful world. Other salvtion scriptures are explaining many different situations we are delivered from (timely salvations). Unless you learn to divide the salvation scriptures, you will never understand the truth that is in the scriptures.:laugh::laugh::laugh:
You will have to explain what you mean by the "two seed" doctrine, I'm not familiar with it.
I believe it means Satan has his children and God has His children... but I'm not 100% on that. Or that that is what he is referring to?
Based upon that passage, what did jesus mean by "many are called, but few are chosen?"
May I submit as an answer to your question...
Mark 4:11 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them."
Then He goes right into the parble of the sower.
I believe this kingdom is a timely spiritual kingdom we can partake of right now in our lives. Many are called into this kingdom... but few are willing to make the sacrifice.
I am in perfect agreement with your statement.May I submit as an answer to your question...
Mark 4:11 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them."
Then He goes right into the parble of the sower.
I believe this kingdom is a timely spiritual kingdom we can partake of right now in our lives. Many are called into this kingdom... but few are willing to make the sacrifice.
Matt 16:28 fits well with your statement. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.lMay I submit as an answer to your question...
Mark 4:11 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them."
Then He goes right into the parble of the sower.
I believe this kingdom is a timely spiritual kingdom we can partake of right now in our lives. Many are called into this kingdom... but few are willing to make the sacrifice.
The promised land is represented as the kingdom, or church of God. Those who did not get to enter because of their unblief were still children of God who will be in heaven. Moses did not make it in because he desobeyed God by striking the rock instead of speaking to the rock, and Moses will also have everlasting life in heaven.In no way, did I ever intend on smearing the PBs, Brother Larry. In actuality, the "few" who do make, will be a number that no man can number. It's "few" in relation to the amount who will perish for eternity, though.
That which I bolded, I agree with.
The promised land is represented as the kingdom, or church of God. Those who did not get to enter because of their unblief were still children of God who will be in heaven. Moses did not make it in because he desobeyed God by striking the rock instead of speaking to the rock, and Moses will also have everlasting life in heaven.
So you are saying that there will be people in heaven who didn't believe on Jesus?
Believing is the result of our eternal salvation, not the cause of our eternal salvation. Have you ever considered the state of the American native indian? They lived in this land before there was anyone here to teach them about God and His Son, yet, we know by history that they believed and worshiped a higher spiritual being (God) and believed that when they died, they would go to a happy hunting ground (heaven). What do you think made them think that way, if not for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. When we are regenerated (born of the Spirit) God puts a new spirit within us, and takes the stony heart out of our flesh, and gives us a heart of flesh, Eze 11:19,and are declared to be the epistle of Christ, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart, 2 Cor 3:3. The native indian knew nothing about the great Spirit Father having a Son. Now, the question is, were these indians who believed this way, regenerated children of God?So you are saying that there will be people in heaven who didn't believe on Jesus?
Believing is the result of our eternal salvation, not the cause of our eternal salvation. Have you ever considered the state of the American native indian? They lived in this land before there was anyone here to teach them about God and His Son, yet, we know by history that they believed and worshiped a higher spiritual being (God) and believed that when they died, they would go to a happy hunting ground (heaven). What do you think made them think that way, if not for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. When we are regenerated (born of the Spirit) God puts a new spirit within us, and takes the stony heart out of our flesh, and gives us a heart of flesh, Eze 11:19,and are declared to be the epistle of Christ, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart, 2 Cor 3:3. The native indian knew nothing about the great Spirit Father having a Son. Now, the question is, were these indians who believed this way, regenerated children of God?
So you are saying that as long as you believe in some greater being, you are probably saved? That there is salvation apart from faith in Jesus Christ? Could it be that the Native Americans were following false gods? Have you actually studied their religious beliefs? I dont think you have.
Our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation, our eternal salvation is the cause of our faith. We are justified by the faith (faithfulness) of Christ, not by our faith, Gal 2:16. Some versions of the bible have changed the wording of Gal 2:16 to read "faith IN Christ" from "faith OF Christ, which changes the word faith to mean man's faith, instead of Christ's faith. The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not our faith, but the faithfulness of Christ. Ann, you seem to be like most people and take too much credit for yourself in obtaining eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is by the grace of God without the help of man. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness, Eph 2:2-3. The natural man cannot worship anything that is of a spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14. The amarican indian would not have worshiped a higher spiritual being if they were still natural men and had not been quickened by God to a spiritual life.So you are saying that as long as you believe in some greater being, you are probably saved? That there is salvation apart from faith in Jesus Christ? Could it be that the Native Americans were following false gods? Have you actually studied their religious beliefs? I dont think you have.
Our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation, our eternal salvation is the cause of our faith. We are justified by the faith (faithfulness) of Christ, not by our faith, Gal 2:16. Some versions of the bible have changed the wording of Gal 2:16 to read "faith IN Christ" from "faith OF Christ, which changes the word faith to mean man's faith, instead of Christ's faith. The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not our faith, but the faithfulness of Christ. Ann, you seem to be like most people and take too much credit for yourself in obtaining eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is by the grace of God without the help of man. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness, Eph 2:2-3. The natural man cannot worship anything that is of a spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14. The amarican indian would not have worshiped a higher spiritual being if they were still natural men and had not been quickened by God to a spiritual life.
You can't keep saying "faith of" because it fits your doctrine. Faith in is the correct translation.
Not in the King James version of Gal 2:16. You must be studying from some other version that has changed the wording to fit their doctrine of eternal salvation by works of man.You can't keep saying "faith of" because it fits your doctrine. Faith in is the correct translation.
The modern version translators do not believe in salvation by the works of man. It's also very dangerous to form a doctrine solely on a particular translation.Not in the King James version of Gal 2:16. You must be studying from some other version that has changed the wording to fit their doctrine of eternal salvation by works of man.
I'm speaking about the proper translation from Greek to English is "in Christ" and not "of Christ." I already gave you twice the reasons for it from a translation point of view. Your only reason is it fits your doctrine. Christ doesn't need faith unless one believes that Christ isn't really God.
btw, you may want to take a peak at Galatians 3:26. 2 Tim 1:13, 2 Tim 3:15.
Here's my notes from the previous time.
Faith in Christ is actually correct. Even the KJV has this in some places. Man does have faith. Christ doesn't need faith.
Nobody is trying to take credit. The reason it's translated differently is because "in" is more correct.
Faith is a gift form God. Christ doesn't need faith because he knows everything. How can you have faith if you are all knowing? The difference is between Subjective Genitive and Objective Genitive.
Note the KJV's inconsistency in Galations 3...
vs 22: πιστεως ιησου KJV: "faith of Jesus"
vs 26: πιστεως ιησου KJV: "believeth in Jesus"
The NIV, NASB, ESV, NKJV,
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
so faith in Jesus is doctrinally sound regardless of how one translates vs 22.
Not in the King James version of Gal 2:16. You must be studying from some other version that has changed the wording to fit their doctrine of eternal salvation by works of man.
The question is not what the KJV says but instead what God says. We must look back to the Greek to see what the Greek language says which can't always be translated well into English with the same clarity as the original language.
Our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation, our eternal salvation is the cause of our faith. We are justified by the faith (faithfulness) of Christ, not by our faith, Gal 2:16. Some versions of the bible have changed the wording of Gal 2:16 to read "faith IN Christ" from "faith OF Christ, which changes the word faith to mean man's faith, instead of Christ's faith. The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not our faith, but the faithfulness of Christ. Ann, you seem to be like most people and take too much credit for yourself in obtaining eternal salvation. Eternal salvation is by the grace of God without the help of man. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness, Eph 2:2-3. The natural man cannot worship anything that is of a spiritual nature, 1 Cor 2:14. The amarican indian would not have worshiped a higher spiritual being if they were still natural men and had not been quickened by God to a spiritual life.
My faith is a gift from God - however God uses this faith in my eternal salvation.
The American Indian worships nature. Is that what God did by "quickening" them? No. Instead they worship false gods - not the one true God. They have no concept of the Gospel and when presented with the Gospel, often they spurn it. That is not one who has been saved by God. If you believe that there is salvation in anyone other than Jesus Christ, then you are believing a false gospel.
Christ was faithful in being submissive to his Father's will, John 6:38, For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Gal 3:16 is man's faith. 2 Tim 1:3 has no reference to "in Christ". 2 Tim 3:15 is man's faith. Gal 2:16 is not man's faith but the faithfulness of Christ to do his Father's will. If you change the "of" in Gal 2:16 to "in", you would be having man justifing himself instead of Christ justifing us. If God wanted Paul to be inspired to write "in Christ" he would have used the word "in". Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life.The modern version translators do not believe in salvation by the works of man. It's also very dangerous to form a doctrine solely on a particular translation.
I'm speaking about the proper translation from Greek to English is "in Christ" and not "of Christ." I already gave you twice the reasons for it from a translation point of view. Your only reason is it fits your doctrine. Christ doesn't need faith unless one believes that Christ isn't really God.
btw, you may want to take a peak at Galatians 3:26. 2 Tim 1:13, 2 Tim 3:15.
Here's my notes from the previous time.
Faith in Christ is actually correct. Even the KJV has this in some places. Man does have faith. Christ doesn't need faith.
Nobody is trying to take credit. The reason it's translated differently is because "in" is more correct.
Faith is a gift form God. Christ doesn't need faith because he knows everything. How can you have faith if you are all knowing? The difference is between Subjective Genitive and Objective Genitive.
Note the KJV's inconsistency in Galations 3...
vs 22: πιστεως ιησου KJV: "faith of Jesus"
vs 26: πιστεως ιησου KJV: "believeth in Jesus"
The NIV, NASB, ESV, NKJV,
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
so faith in Jesus is doctrinally sound regardless of how one translates vs 22.
By changing the word "of" to "in" in Gal 2:16 you would be having man justifing himself eternally instead of Christ justifing man. Can you show me where the scriptures say that our eternal justification is by man? If you find the Greek translation of the word "of" in Gal 2:16 to mean "in" let me know where you found it. It is alarming how man likes to take credit for their eternal salvation away from God and claim it for themselves. Rev 22:19 says that we should not change the wording of his inspired writers.The question is not what the KJV says but instead what God says. We must look back to the Greek to see what the Greek language says which can't always be translated well into English with the same clarity as the original language.
If you think that God uses your faith in determining your eternal salvation, then you are believing a false doctrine. Our faith can be responsiable for saving (delivering) us from many things of this world, but our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation, otherwise it would not be by the grace of God. Our believing in Jesus is a product of our eternal salvation and not the cause of it. If it makes you feel good about yourself to believe that your eternal salvation is brought about by your faith and believing, then just go ahead and hold on to that, but Jesus said "deny yourselves, and take up your cross and follow me". Our faith does not save us eternally neither does our believing in Jesus, or our believing in the gospel. The regenerated person will believe in spiritually things, but the natural man cannot believe, or discern spiritual things. Regeneration comes before a person will believe in Jesus, repent, believe the gospel, or any other thing that is of a spiritual nature. You are giving the natural man more ability than he has. 1 Cor 2:14.My faith is a gift from God - however God uses this faith in my eternal salvation.
The American Indian worships nature. Is that what God did by "quickening" them? No. Instead they worship false gods - not the one true God. They have no concept of the Gospel and when presented with the Gospel, often they spurn it. That is not one who has been saved by God. If you believe that there is salvation in anyone other than Jesus Christ, then you are believing a false gospel.
Christ was faithful in being submissive to his Father's will, John 6:38, For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Gal 3:16 is man's faith. 2 Tim 1:3 has no reference to "in Christ". 2 Tim 3:15 is man's faith. Gal 2:16 is not man's faith but the faithfulness of Christ to do his Father's will.
I think I missquoted 2 Tim 1:3. not sure which passage I was meaning to use, but the other passages where showing the phrase "in Christ" or some form of that in the KJV. but it's the same wording in all three, except you want to change it in 2 timothy to fit your doctrine.
Not at all. Saying such is a straw man. our faith is a gift of God. Faith has by definition to be in something. Faith is believing. Believing what/who? It's Jesus Christ. Man in no way justifies himself. No one here believes that.If you change the "of" in Gal 2:16 to "in", you would be having man justifing himself instead of Christ justifing us.
If God wanted Paul to be inspired to write "in Christ" he would have used the word "in". Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life.
Did you even read what I wrote. Paul didn't write "in Christ" nor "of Christ." That's English. He wrote in Greek. You ignored what I wrote. First of all, the word "in" nor "of" isn't there. Secondly, Paul didn't write "in christ" or "of Christ." He wrote πίστις Ιησους. You use grammar to determine if "in" or "of" should be used. And as I showed you, "in" is the best for that passage.
Also, a very low charge to say someone is taking away or adding. It's called proper translating. The only argument you have given is that it fits your doctrine. I gave you the proper understanding of translating the term πίστις Ιησους into English which is "in Christ." Christ doesn't need faith.