Matthew 24

[Yeshua1]

Not in heaven, in the "saved world", the world where everyone is saved.....

Not everyone will be saved even diuring the Millennium though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Something you miss is that God uses Satan to administer his wrath and judgement over the world. But Satan is bound wherever the Gospel is preached. Proof is in Jesus' words “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Matthew 12:28) (NET) “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) (KJV 1900) “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

Satan being bound would mean no more wars, no more natural disasters, no more famines, as this world would have come fully under the Lingdom of Christ then!

 

[Yeshua1]

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient snake, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth – Gog and Magog – and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
​

What does Scripture actually teach? No Scripture stands alone but is always related to prophecy & fulfilment.

Jesus said a lot about binding Satan, note particularly John 12 -

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. ‘Sir,’ they said, ‘we would like to see Jesus.’ 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.
23 Jesus replied, ‘The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
.......
30 Jesus said, ‘This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.’​

Before Calvary, only one people group comprised the "people of God." At Calvary, the prince of this world will be driven out. So the nations would be drawn to Jesus. How that works out becomes clear over the next few weeks, with the great commission to all nations.

Satan is bound & his captives, both Jew & Gentile are freed by the Gospel. Christ ascends to his heavenly throne, but commissions the Apostles & the church down the centuries to call sinners from all nations into his heavenly kingdom. Note the conditions during the millennium -

John sees the souls of the martyrs. The first resurrection is not a bodily resurrection - it is salvation. See John 5:24-30. That spiritual resurrection is distinct from the last day resurrection.

Your posts claim -




Rev. 20 says at the end of the millennium the number of the wicked is as the sand on the seashore. Clearly it cannot be a "golden age" with no wars etc. It is clearly the present age.

The general resurrection at the return of Christ is described in Rev. 20:11 onwards & corresponds to the same general resurrection described in John 5:28-30.

​

There will be upon the earth both saved and lost persons at time jesus reigns, just that he rules with rod of iron the nations, so no crime will be permitted to flourish!

 

[kyredneck]

I think this must be the Preterist Bible,

I use the ASV mostly. There is no such thing as a 'Preterist Bible'.

I can't find one that says this, not in the main text, anyway.

Probably because you haven't looked:

"That it is near.--Better, that He is near, in accordance with James 5:9."

New International Version
Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

New Living Translation
In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door.

English Standard Version
So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.

Berean Study Bible
So also, when you see all these things, you know that He is near, right at the door.

Berean Literal Bible
So also you, when you see all these things, know that He is near, at the doors.

New American Standard Bible
so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

King James Bible
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that he is near--at the door.

Contemporary English Version
So when you see all these things happening, you will know the time has almost come.

Good News Translation
In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that the time is near, ready to begin.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near--at the door!

International Standard Version
In the same way, when you see all these things, you'll know that the Son of Man is near, right at the door.

NET Bible
So also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near, right at the door.

New Heart English Bible
Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
So also, whenever you see all these things, know that he has approached the door.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the same way, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the door.

New American Standard 1977
even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

Jubilee Bible 2000
so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

King James 2000 Bible
So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

American King James Version
So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

American Standard Version
even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.

Douay-Rheims Bible
So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Darby Bible Translation
Thus also ye, when ye see all these things, know that it is near, at the doors.

English Revised Version
even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.

Webster's Bible Translation
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Weymouth New Testament
So you also, when you see all these signs, may be sure that He is near--at your very door.

World English Bible
Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Young's Literal Translation
so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh -- at the doors.

 

[kyredneck]

I think this must be the Preterist Bible, because I can't find one that says this, not in the main text, anyway. It is the Lord Jesus speaking, so it would be natural for Him to us the First Person rather than the Third, as He does in verses 34 & 35. If He were using the Third Person, then I would expect to see autos to make it clear that the referent is 'Son of Man' back in verse 30.

This is why I point out to you your 'cherry picking'. You ignore or 'breeze over' the parallel passages that don't exactly fit your dogma:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lu 9

IF you're honest about it, the logical conclusion here is that the coming of the Son of man and the coming of the kingdom of God with power are synonymous.

33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13
31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

Again, IF you're honest about it, the logical conclusion here is that the coming of the Son of man and the coming of the kingdom of God are synonymous, AND, "shall in no wise taste of death" defines "This generation shall not pass away", i.e., "this generation" is none other than those living at that time that were contemporary with Christ and the apostles.

But that's not all. Luke 17 also verifies the synonymy of "the Son of man in His day" with "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation".

We'll delve into that if you wish.​

 

[robycop3]

“So then, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne,David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay.” (Acts 2:30–31) (NET)

Paul says:
“For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26) (NET)

So Jesus rules now from David's Throne in heavenly Jerusalem above until the resurrection, and then delivers the kingdom up to God continuing forever in the New Heavens and earth.

No, Jesus is still in heaven, of course, while David's throne is still on earth. Again, remember Jesus' parable of the nobleman going on a long journey to receive his kingdom. Jesus is that nobleman, of course, and He has not yet returned from the journey.

 

[Covenanter]

No, Jesus is still in heaven, of course,

We agree so far ... except that he is present with his redeemed people wherever we are.

while David's throne is still on earth.

Have you a Scripture to support that assertion?
But see 1689Dave's post #37 that you quoted.

Again, remember Jesus' parable of the nobleman going on a long journey to receive his kingdom. Jesus is that nobleman, of course, and He has not yet returned from the journey.

I suggest you reread Mat. 25. Where does Scripture say that Jesus "going on a long journey to receive his kingdom?"
He is King of kings.

Note -
29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favour with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants for ever; his kingdom will never end.’

 

[1689Dave]

No, Jesus is still in heaven, of course, while David's throne is still on earth. Again, remember Jesus' parable of the nobleman going on a long journey to receive his kingdom. Jesus is that nobleman, of course, and He has not yet returned from the journey.

David's Throne is eternal, not of this temporal world. Jesus now reigns on David's Throne in Heaven according to Peter. You are confusing the New Heavens and earth reign of Christ, when God fully restores the kingdom to Israel (us), with his present reign where the kingdom suffers violence and is being restored. Paul says Jesus will deliver the kingdom up to God at the resurrection, when he defeats the last enemy - death. And the present eternal kingdom, fully restored at this point will continue forever in the new heavens and earth.

 

[1689Dave]

Satan being bound would mean no more wars, no more natural disasters, no more famines, as this world would have come fully under the Lingdom of Christ then!

Not necessarily. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

Unbelievers are under God's wrath, war, mayhem, natural disasters etc. Satan is a liar, but the truth binds him, and sets us free.

 

[1689Dave]

Not everyone will be saved even diuring the Millennium though!

In Revelation 20, the millennium passage, a problem for Dispensationalism and Premillennialism is: If in Revelation 20:3 Satan cannot deceive the nations during the Millennium (= all are saved), then only believers remain to attack the camp of the saints at the end of the world.

 

[Covenanter]

Not everyone will be saved even diuring the Millennium though!

There will be upon the earth both saved and lost persons at time jesus reigns, just that he rules with rod of iron the nations, so no crime will be permitted to flourish!

If you were to correctly identify the present Gospel age as the Millennium, then some of what you tweet would be correct. See my post #28 to which you replied with the usual one-line tweet -

The first resurrection at the second coming are the saints, the second one 1000 years later is for the lost,,,,,

Have you ever read John 5, where Jesus speaks of conversion as a resurrection, to be contrasted with the general resurrection for judgment.

I'll post it here to save you the trouble of opening your Bible -

24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.​

28 ‘Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.


.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not necessarily. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) (KJV 1900)

Unbelievers are under God's wrath, war, mayhem, natural disasters etc. Satan is a liar, but the truth binds him, and sets us free.

The entire earth will have the worship of God and Jesus, all nations to obey Them, when has that happened?

 

[Yeshua1]

Except that scriptures state tyhat satan is let out one last time to fight back against God, and takes many with Him then, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

If you were to correctly identify the present Gospel age as the Millennium, then some of what you tweet would be correct. See my post #28 to which you replied with the usual one-line tweet -


Have you ever read John 5, where Jesus speaks of conversion as a resurrection, to be contrasted with the general resurrection for judgment.

I'll post it here to save you the trouble of opening your Bible -

24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.​

28 ‘Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.


.

When is the First resurrection of the saved then, as the Second One is for the Lost, and there is a time period between those 2 events!

 

[Covenanter]

When is the First resurrection of the saved then, as the Second One is for the Lost, and there is a time period between those 2 events!

Yes1 - I requote my post because you haven't read the Scripture I quoted. Jesus in John 5 speaks of 2 resurrections - spiritual resurrection aka conversion - aka born again .... notice what Jesus said -

a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.​

If you were to correctly identify the present Gospel age as the Millennium, then some of what you tweet would be correct. See my post #28 to which you replied with the usual one-line tweet -

Have you ever read John 5, where Jesus speaks of conversion as a resurrection, to be contrasted with the general resurrection for judgment.

I'll post it here to save you the trouble of opening your Bible -

24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.​

28 ‘Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.​

When is the First resurrection of the saved then, as the Second One is for the Lost, and there is a time period between those 2 events!

Notice verse 28-9 - for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned

The first resurrection is taking place throughout the Gospel age as sinners are converted.

The second resurrection is a future time when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out

The millennium is not tacked on after the Gospel age with glorified believers living on earth with wicked unbelievers. It is the present Gospel age.

Reread Rev. 20. The souls of the martyrs are living with Christ in glory. How can we escape the second death? Only by being saved in the present Gospel age - Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them.

Please read the Scriptures quoted. Your tweets are worthless without supporting Scripture. Are you a preacher? Are your sermons 30 second tweets?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes1 - I requote my post because you haven't read the Scripture I quoted. Jesus in John 5 speaks of 2 resurrections - spiritual resurrection aka conversion - aka born again .... notice what Jesus said -

a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.​

Notice verse 28-9 - for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned

The first resurrection is taking place throughout the Gospel age as sinners are converted.

The second resurrection is a future time when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out

The millennium is not tacked on after the Gospel age with glorified believers living on earth with wicked unbelievers. It is the present Gospel age.

Reread Rev. 20. The souls of the martyrs are living with Christ in glory. How can we escape the second death? Only by being saved in the present Gospel age - Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them.

Please read the Scriptures quoted. Your tweets are worthless without supporting Scripture. Are you a preacher? Are your sermons 30 second tweets?

First resurrection is given to us by Paul and John as being at Second Coming, not when born again!

 

[1689Dave]

The entire earth will have the worship of God and Jesus, all nations to obey Them, when has that happened?

It all makes sense if we realize the kingdom of God is here now on earth and in heaven where Jesus reigns on David's Throne. And in the New Heavens and Earth where only a saved world will exist. This is the world Jesus is the savior of.

“After these things I looked, and here was an enormous crowd that no one could count, made up of persons from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb dressed in long white robes, and with palm branches in their hands.” (Revelation 7:9) (NET)

 

[Yeshua1]

It all makes sense if we realize the kingdom of God is here now on earth and in heaven where Jesus reigns on David's Throne. And in the New Heavens and Earth where only a saved world will exist. This is the world Jesus is the savior of.

“After these things I looked, and here was an enormous crowd that no one could count, made up of persons from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb dressed in long white robes, and with palm branches in their hands.” (Revelation 7:9) (NET)

This Earth will have a time when the reign of god will be directly upon it, as until, the Second Coming, God is permitting things to go on that will cease to be happening in the Messianic Age!

 

[1689Dave]

This Earth will have a time when the reign of god will be directly upon it, as until, the Second Coming, God is permitting things to go on that will cease to be happening in the Messianic Age!

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. It is now in heaven. And in the age to come it will be in the New Heavens and earth. All millennial theories fail trying to make his spiritual kingdom physical. Moreover, his kingdom is eternal, not merely 1000 years long.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. It is now in heaven. And in the age to come it will be in the New Heavens and earth. All millennial theories fail trying to make his spiritual kingdom physical. Moreover, his kingdom is eternal, not merely 1000 years long.

the Eternal realm is when Jesus submitts all things over to God the Father, so jesus reign as the King here upon the Earth is indeed 1000 years!