Matthew 7:13-14

Tuor,

I find nothing in the Bible about being born from above again and again and again and again.

If you believe that a saved person can be snatched out of God's hand, you are arguing against the Bible. If you believe that a saved person can ever be lost after being saved, you are arguing against the Bible.

John 10:27-30(NASB)
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 “I and the Father are one.”

Romans 8:31-39(NASB)
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 Just as it is written,
“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

So what are you saying, Tuor? Are you saying that you believe after a person is saved, if he becomes unsaved, that's it - no chance to come back to Jesus?

Also, it is not wise to take verses out of context. We must take the Bible as a whole. You put out verses that you claim teach something that is clearly at odds with the verses I submitted. I believe you are looking at verses divorced from a systematic understanding of the Bible as a whole and that you are looking at verses outside of placing them within the context of the Bible as a whole.

As long as you continue to do that, we will never be in agreement on this earth.

 

1)Notice how the Bible says this man has not root and his following of Jesus is only temporary. He was never saved as his heart never ceased to be stony, there was never any regeneration in his life. He is like these folks:

John 6:66(NASB)
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

And why did they refuse to walk with Him? -

John 6:65(NASB)
65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

2)This is a church matter similar to language that the apostle Paul used -

1 Corinthians 5:5(NASB)
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20(NASB)
20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

You should notice that this was done as a matter of salvation, not damnation.

Now, let's see you deal with the verses I submitted.

 

Then why are you only arguing against the Calvinist position? Arminians are also debating in this forum about how God saves. That is what this forum is all about - soteriology - how God saves sinners.

If you are going to be consistent, let's see you also argue against the Arminian position.

 

If true, it's one of the few places in today's Christendom where they are the ones in the minority and getting beat up all the time.

 

I am a Southern Baptist and there are very few 5-point Calvinistic Southern Baptist Churches, although you can find a lot of Southern Baptists who believe the T and the P, but not the inbetween. They are at best donut Calvinists - they have a hole in the middle.

Most Southern Baptists don't have an identifiable theology as we talk about it in this forum. It's more a make-it-up-as-you-go theology as doctrinal issues intrude into their lives.

 

1)Absolutely.

2)That epistle was written to Christians. "All" therefore in that specific verse refers to the elect, those saved by the blood of Christ. You will probably disagree but in other conversations I have seen non-Calvinists concede, perhaps begrudgingly, that that is a possible meaning.

 

1)Absolutely.

2)That epistle was written to Christians. "All" therefore in that specific verse refers to the elect, those saved by the blood of Christ. You will probably disagree but in other conversations I have seen non-Calvinists concede, perhaps begrudgingly, that that is a possible meaning. </font>[/QUOTE]WRONG KEN, "All" in this scripture describes the whole of humanity and not just those who have already come to be Christian. Peter is telling his audience that it is God's desire than no one should perish. If it had been a targeted "all" as you say, it would have been modified by "you" or 'We' or 'us' as in "You all" specifying his audience.

 

So because my interpretation disagrees with your interpretation I am "adding to the word of God"?

I did not add any words or change any words. I interpreted words which I have just as much of a right to do as you do, Tuor, whether you like it or not.

May God have mercy on us all.

 

It is.

2 Peter 3:8-9(NASB)
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

If "all" was not particular but meaning all people of all time, then Peter would have written "is patient toward all".

May God have mercy on us all.

 

Are we now of those who don't believe God? Having once tasted the good things of God, been made the partakers of the heavenly calling then we shall be among those who do not believe God?

Eternal life is Eternal Life. Or else Christ is a liar. I am certain of whom I have believed and will not turn aside for the fear of others because by Grace am I made a child of God and by Grace I remain so to the end of this world.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

I stand by my interpretation, Tuor, and I stand by my trust in Jesus Christ to bring me safely to Him.

I believe your interpretation to be wrong. And I am very sorry that you don't have the same confidence in Jesus that I do that He will bring you safely to Him. It is terrible to be in your position and have to fret and worry 24 hours a day that you might make a misstep and end up in hell even though you have trusted in the finished work of Jesus on your behalf.

May God have mercy on us all.