"Maybe its real ,and I'm not Chosen "

[percho]

What are the chosen, chosen for? Will the twelve ultimately do what they were chosen for?
What did Calvin think the chosen were chosen for?

Matt 19:28 Luke 22:29,30, Rev 20:6 Acts 15:16,17 2 Tim 2:12 Heb 2:8,9

Does to reign with Christ forever and ever require eternal life?

 

[37818]

New So either you aren't real
Or I am just not chosen
Maybe I'll never know
Either way my heart is broken
This is the lyrics from a well known, former professing Calvinist , singer song writer Derick Webb . Now self proclaimed 'reformed atheist ' .

Interesting. But one who knows God cannot not know God. Some things once known cannot be not known. Knowing God is one of these.

 

[Alan Gross]

So either you aren't real
Or I am just not chosen
Maybe I'll never know
Either way my heart is broken
This is the lyrics from a well known, former professing Calvinist , singer song writer Derick Webb . Now self proclaimed 'reformed atheist ' .

i think this video explains some of the issues with Calvinism / Lordship salvation. This is an interview with Derick Webb . I think what he says exposes some of the logical consequences of Calvinism and Lordship salvation .
Starting about the 50 min mark onwards are the key parts . till about 102 min mark .
Thoughts ?

Salvation Comes with a Salvation experience.

The key is that there is no reason for nothing.

If a person 'prays a prayer's that is not The Way God Saves souls.

No person without an experience will have Assurance unless there was something to be Saved from, first.

Believing, and choosing, and desiding are not God Wrought unless there has been Conviction of sin, through the Schoolmaster.

Salvation is Accompanied by Repentance of that personal sin and Faith Given to TRUST The Savour, Jesus Christ.

There are a lot of songs, but, "it is well with my soul" is only sung Spiritually by one with The New Birth, who has Joy Bells.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Salvation Comes with a Salvation experience.

The key is that there is no reason for nothing.

If a person 'prays a prayer's that is not The Way God Saves souls.

No person without an experience will have Assurance unless there was something to be Saved from, first.

Believing, and choosing, and desiding are not God Wrought unless there has been Conviction of sin, through the Schoolmaster.

Salvation is Accompanied by Repentance of that personal sin and Faith Given to TRUST The Savour, Jesus Christ.

////There are a lot of songs, but, "it is well with my soul" is only sung Spiritually by one with The New Birth, who has Joy Bells.

////Salvation is Accompanied by Repentance of that personal sin and Faith Given to TRUST The Savour, Jesus Christ.////_
Which verses would you believe say this ?

 

[Quantrill]

I believe it is wrong for the born-again Christian to dwell on the question of whether or not he is really chosen. God, who ultimately is the One Who decides, also chose the way by which one comes into this salvation.

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

So if one beliefs Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour and comes to Him, he will be saved.

Jesus also addressed this same question, and I believe settled it. Concerning our being chosen, He said yes. (John 6:44) "No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Concerning our assurance of that He said yes. (John 6:37) "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Quantrill

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe it is wrong for the born-again Christian to dwell on the question of whether or not he is really chosen. God, who ultimately is the One Who decides, also chose the way by which one comes into this salvation.

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

So if one beliefs Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour and comes to Him, he will be saved.

Jesus also addressed this same question, and I believe settled it. Concerning our being chosen, He said yes. (John 6:44) "No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Concerning our assurance of that He said yes. (John 6:37) "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Quantrill

How does Any of those verses say you were chosen in eternity past to be saved ?
2 thes is telling already saved people that their means of how they were saved ' through sanctification and believing the truth .And being drawn ( attracted).doesn't mean saved ..Notice the Father draws before the cross . Then Jesus draws ALL men after the cross . The Holy Spirit is not said to be drawing anyone .

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe it is wrong for the born-again Christian to dwell on the question of whether or not he is really chosen. God, who ultimately is the One Who decides, also chose the way by which one comes into this salvation.

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

So if one beliefs Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour and comes to Him, he will be saved.

Jesus also addressed this same question, and I believe settled it. Concerning our being chosen, He said yes. (John 6:44) "No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Concerning our assurance of that He said yes. (John 6:37) "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Quantrill

Yes those before the cross that were drawn to Jesus by the Father ,if they believed, of course they would not be cast out .

 

[Barry Johnson]

I believe it is wrong for the born-again Christian to dwell on the question of whether or not he is really chosen. God, who ultimately is the One Who decides, also chose the way by which one comes into this salvation.

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

So if one beliefs Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour and comes to Him, he will be saved.

Jesus also addressed this same question, and I believe settled it. Concerning our being chosen, He said yes. (John 6:44) "No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Concerning our assurance of that He said yes. (John 6:37) "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Quantrill

John 12 .32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

 

[Quantrill]

How does Any of those verses say you were chosen in eternity past to be saved ?
2 thes is telling already saved people that their means of how they were saved ' through sanctification and believing the truth .And being drawn ( attracted).doesn't mean saved ..Notice the Father draws before the cross . Then Jesus draws ALL men after the cross . The Holy Spirit is not said to be drawing anyone .

(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father...draw him...."

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation...."

That Jesus is the focal point of where one is drawn to for salvation is true whether you see the Father drawing or Jesus drawing. Jesus always does the will of the Father, doesn't He? (John 8:29) Do you think Jesus will draw anyone whom the Father would not? Do you think that Jesus would draw anyone whom God did not chose from the beginning?

In other words, Jesus drawing all to Himself does not remove God's choice from the beginning.

Quantrill

 

[Barry Johnson]

(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father...draw him...."

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation...."

That Jesus is the focal point of where one is drawn to for salvation is true whether you see the Father drawing or Jesus drawing. Jesus always does the will of the Father, doesn't He? (John 8:29) Do you think Jesus will draw anyone whom the Father would not? Do you think that Jesus would draw anyone whom God did not chose from the beginning?

In other words, Jesus drawing all to Himself does not remove God's choice from the beginning.

Quantrill

That's called inductive reasoning . Which is a bad hermeneutic. What does the verse say ? Not 'what do I string together from different letters with different contexts ect and say the verses are presumed to teach. What does the verse say ?

 

[Quantrill]

That's called inductive reasoning . Which is a bad hermeneutic. What does the verse say ? Not 'what do I string together from different letters with different contexts ect and say the verses are presumed to teach. What does the verse say ?

Using Scripture is a bad hermeneutic? Strange. If I try and make Scripture say something it isn't saying, then that is a bad hermeneutic. I have not done that. The Scriptures I presented speak to the subject at hand.

Take any doctrine of Scripture, and you will 'string' all kinds of verses throughout the Bible, in developing that doctrine. That is not a bad hermeneutic.

I have given my view as to why it is wrong for the Christian to question whether or not he has been 'chosen of God' in post #(25). And I have supported it with Scripture.

Quantrill

 

[Alan Gross]

////Salvation is Accompanied by Repentance of that personal sin and Faith Given to TRUST The Savour, Jesus Christ.////_
Which verses would you believe say this ?

Every verse in the Bible Teaches this, overall and anytime there is mention of Salvation, Conviction of sin from The Word, and Repentance must be Granted and Given TOWARD themselves and agreeing with God about who they are, as hopeless and helpless sinners guilty and Hellbound.

Along with Repentance Toward their condemning sin, the soul is Given Faith, by God, to Trust Jesus, under the preaching of The Gospel.

Conviction under the Schoolmaster of The Law must and does take place in all souls GOD SAVES and they are Given the Twin Doctrines, of Repentance and Faith, by God.

Enormous bodies of Teaching are in The Bible, for all related subject matter on Salvation.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Using Scripture is a bad hermeneutic? Strange. If I try and make Scripture say something it isn't saying, then that is a bad hermeneutic. I have not done that. The Scriptures I presented speak to the subject at hand.

Take any doctrine of Scripture, and you will 'string' all kinds of verses throughout the Bible, in developing that doctrine. That is not a bad hermeneutic.

I have given my view as to why it is wrong for the Christian to question whether or not he has been 'chosen of God' in post #(25). And I have supported it with Scripture.

Quantrill

An example of what your doing is :
A 8 year old boy is seen doing 50 back flips in a row

Every verse in the Bible Teaches this, overall and anytime there is mention of Salvation, Conviction of sin from The Word, and Repentance must be Granted and Given TOWARD themselves and agreeing with God about who they are, as hopeless and helpless sinners guilty and Hellbound.

Along with Repentance Toward their condemning sin, the soul is Given Faith, by God, to Trust Jesus, under the preaching of The Gospel.

Conviction under the Schoolmaster of The Law must and does take place in all souls GOD SAVES and they are Given the Twin Doctrines, of Repentance and Faith, by God.

Enormous bodies of Teaching are in The Bible, for all related subject matter on Salvation.

And yet only a certain group believes this . Shouldn't that be a red flag ?

 

[Quantrill]

An example of what your doing is :
A 8 year old boy is seen doing 50 back flips in a row

I do not apologize for making a statement that is based upon Scripture, and then giving Scripture to support it.

Quantrill

 

[MB]

(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father...draw him...."

(2 Thess. 2:13) "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation...."

That Jesus is the focal point of where one is drawn to for salvation is true whether you see the Father drawing or Jesus drawing. Jesus always does the will of the Father, doesn't He? (John 8:29) Do you think Jesus will draw anyone whom the Father would not? Do you think that Jesus would draw anyone whom God did not chose from the beginning?

In other words, Jesus drawing all to Himself does not remove God's choice from the beginning.

Quantrill

Except the drawing in Jn 6:44 is a drawing of the disciples not the Gentiles Jn 12:32 is the only drawing the rest of man kind should pay attention to, because every one is drawn. Calvinist tend to claim Jn 6:44 as the drawing of them selves making them some how special like the disciples. It doesn't. Jn 12:32 is much larger in who is being Drawn because it is all of man. Claiming Jn 6:44 applies to your self is ridiculous.

MB

 

[kyredneck]

This is the lyrics from a well known, former professing Calvinist

….some of you people got real deep problems, how do you sleep at night? Calvinist at your back door? Watching your house? Under your bed? Hiding in your closet? Definitely on your brain.

Lamenting our sinfulness in the same vein as Paul in Romans 7 has zilch to do with Calvinism or LS. It comes natural from the quickened hearts of His children.

 

[AustinC]

John 12 .32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Universalism...

 

[Quantrill]

Except the drawing in Jn 6:44 is a drawing of the disciples not the Gentiles Jn 12:32 is the only drawing the rest of man kind should pay attention to, because every one is drawn. Calvinist tend to claim Jn 6:44 as the drawing of them selves making them some how special like the disciples. It doesn't. Jn 12:32 is much larger in who is being Drawn because it is all of man. Claiming Jn 6:44 applies to your self is ridiculous.

MB

I don't see (John 6:44) as speaking only to the disciples. The 'All' is identified in (John 6:37). "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

I see (John 12:32) speaking to the same 'All'.

Quantrill

 

[Barry Johnson]

….some of you people got real deep problems, how do you sleep at night? Calvinist at your back door? Watching your house? Under your bed? Hiding in your closet? Definitely on your brain.

Lamenting our sinfulness in the same vein as Paul in Romans 7 has zilch to do with Calvinism or LS. It comes natural from the quickened hearts of His children.

not sure what your saying ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Universalism...

So your accusing Jesus of teaching Universalism? Or does Draw mean attract?