Medical Examiner Concluded George Floyd Likely Died Of Fentanyl Overdose, Court Docs Reveal

[just-want-peace]

That applies to a lot these days.

This, IMHO, is the "UNDERSTATEMENT" of the week!!!

 

[SGO]

MRoss has been permanently banned - thus will not be able to answer your question

We can pray for MRoss. That is not banned.

 

[Reynolds]

There is still an issue of not providing medical aid. When someone is restrained the restrainer takes responsibility for that person. A fair argument would be that the officers did not render aid or provide Mr. Floyd with the care he needed (as you note, he was screaming that he could not breathe before he was pulled out of the vehicle). That would mean that a murder charge is probably overreaching. But a negligent homicide may be more accurate.

To have a negligent homicide, your negligent action has to cause the homicide. If M.E. says asphyxiation is NOT cause of death and overdose is most probable cause of death, what is the negligent action that caused death by overdose? I was never trained how to treat an O.D. I bet they were not either. Many people holler, scream, act a fool, and holler about not being able to breathe after a fight. I believe I would have just left him in car and drove off to either jail or E.R. They were at least trying to some degree to accommodate his problem.

 

[Reynolds]

They called EMS and waited for EMS to arrive. That is their legal burden.

 

[JonC]

To have a negligent homicide, your negligent action has to cause the homicide. If M.E. says asphyxiation is NOT cause of death and overdose is most probable cause of death, what is the negligent action that caused death by overdose? I was never trained how to treat an O.D. I bet they were not either. Many people holler, scream, act a fool, and holler about not being able to breathe after a fight. I believe I would have just left him in car and drove off to either jail or E.R. They were at least trying to some degree to accommodate his problem.

When I worked as a psych tech we had overzealous techs who became abusive. The issue is (or so it was back then) that when we restrained someone (usually they were high on something, we were in DC) we took responsibility for them. Even if they died of drugs it was on us if we denied them treatment that could have prevented their deaths.

I grant times could have changed (this was the mid 90's). But we had to be very careful, follow procedures, and be able to defend our actions as we could kill someone by their own stupidity.

 

[Revmitchell]

When I worked as a psych tech we had overzealous techs who became abusive. The issue is (or so it was back then) that when we restrained someone (usually they were high on something, we were in DC) we took responsibility for them. Even if they died of drugs it was on us if we denied them treatment that could have prevented their deaths.

I grant times could have changed (this was the mid 90's). But we had to be very careful, follow procedures, and be able to defend our actions as we could kill someone by their own stupidity.

There us no justification to lean on a guys neck with your knee while he is handcuffed and four other cops walking around. That is a misuse of use of force.

 

[Reynolds]

When I worked as a psych tech we had overzealous techs who became abusive. The issue is (or so it was back then) that when we restrained someone (usually they were high on something, we were in DC) we took responsibility for them. Even if they died of drugs it was on us if we denied them treatment that could have prevented their deaths.

I grant times could have changed (this was the mid 90's). But we had to be very careful, follow procedures, and be able to defend our actions as we could kill someone by their own stupidity.

That was inside an institution. More control. More knowledge of patient.
If we hog tied, we were liable. Hand cuffing was just considered routine and SOP. I will bet his dept SOP mandates cuffing behind back. Despite bad optics, the knee over and at times on the neck was doing no harm.
Floyd was the one who asked to be laid on the ground.

 

[Reynolds]

There us no justification to lean on a guys neck with your knee while he is handcuffed and four other cops walking around. That is a misuse of use of force.

But was it criminal? No. He was using a restraint technique in which he was trained. If done properly, it does not harm.
We stopped using chokes many years ago, but there was no mandate of any kind forcing us to do so. This was not even a choke.

 

[JonC]

That was inside an institution. More control. More knowledge of patient.
If we hog tied, we were liable. Hand cuffing was just considered routine and SOP. I will bet his dept SOP mandates cuffing behind back. Despite bad optics, the knee over the neck was doing no harm.

That was half a block down Georgia Avenue. We knew nothing of the patient (this would be prior to admission).

I was in better shape back then.

 

[Reynolds]

That was half a block down Georgia Avenue. We knew nothing of the patient (this would be prior to admission).

I was in better shape back then.

I am not following what yall were doing.

 

[JonC]

I am not following what yall were doing.

The cops would get some guy, put him in an ambulance. I worked on a psych ward. We'd get a call the ambulance was coming to the ER with a combative high dude. We'd go to the ER, but sometimes the guys would not make it in the ER doors and we would have to run after him and restrain him.

Most of the time it was quiet except for occasional in patient stuff.

 

[canadyjd]

But was it criminal? No. He was using a restraint technique in which he was trained. If done properly, it does not harm.....

There is no legal or logical reason for LEO to use a restraint technique on a handcuffed suspect that is unconscious, unresponsive, and without a detectable pulse. That is what they did for 2:45 sec.

I suspect their training included some kind of warning that if the suspect is unconscious, unresponsive and has no detectable pulse.... get off of him immediately.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

They called EMS and waited for EMS to arrive. That is their legal burden.

They did more than that. They stayed on top of Mr. Floyd for 2:45 sec knowing he was unconscious, unresponsive, and had no detectable pulse.

MURDER

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

There is no legal or logical reason for LEO to use a restraint technique on a handcuffed suspect that is unconscious, unresponsive, and without a detectable pulse. That is what they did for 2:45 sec.

I suspect their training included some kind of warning that if the suspect is unconscious, unresponsive and has no detectable pulse.... get off of him immediately.

peace to you

He was only unconscious for a short time.

 

[Reynolds]

They did more than that. They stayed on top of Mr. Floyd for 2:45 sec knowing he was unconscious, unresponsive, and had no detectable pulse.

MURDER

peace to you

You keep changing your mind.
Cause of death is drug overdose.
Cause of death, not asphyxiation.
How exactly is that murder?

 

[Reynolds]

Facts and rule of law must prevail. Optics be danged.

 

[canadyjd]

You keep changing your mind.
Cause of death is drug overdose.
Cause of death, not asphyxiation.
How exactly is that murder?

I haven’t changed my mind. I accurately stated what the ME report stated and pointed out it was not definitive.

I agreed with you the ME report would be a problem for the prosecution.

I stated it was likely a plea deal would be worked out for a lesser charge.

But I haven’t changed my mind. The 2:45 on the neck after Mr. Floyd was unconscious, unresponsive, and without a detectable pulse makes it murder, imo

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

He was only unconscious for a short time.

What medical evidence do you have that he was only unconscious for a short time? What does a “short time” mean?

Are you trying to say Mr. Floyd was only unconscious for a short time before he died with a LEO knee on his neck? Or, are you saying he was unconscious, but not yet dead when the LEO’s finally got off him?

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

I haven’t changed my mind. I accurately stated what the ME report stated and pointed out it was not definitive.

I agreed with you the ME report would be a problem for the prosecution.

I stated it was likely a plea deal would be worked out for a lesser charge.

But I haven’t changed my mind. The 2:45 on the neck after Mr. Floyd was unconscious, unresponsive, and without a detectable pulse makes it murder, imo

peace to you

Dont you think "definitive" is necessary to establish guilt BEYOND a reasonable doubt?
The cause of death is drug overdose.
Floyd asked to be laid on ground.
Officers called EMS and laid him on ground.
Knee to the neck has bad optics but M E. report says it is not the cause of death.

How again did the officers kill Floyd?

 

[SGO]

Many think, "I can't breathe!" came as a result of the knee.