Medical Examiner Concluded George Floyd Likely Died Of Fentanyl Overdose, Court Docs Reveal

[canadyjd]

That's going to be a very difficult road. Vague at best. Per the evidence out there, I've concluded the officer was grossly negligent. I'm not an expert, nor do I have all the facts, but from what I've seen, he made some very stupid and incompetent decisions. To compound it, he tuned out the bystanders pleading with him, which showed he lacked proper concern for the person under his care. Officers are responsible for those they arrest. I don't think that aspect should be ignored, and I don't take that lightly. I do think he's been rightly terminated, and has committed a crime.

I still need to qualify this with the fact that I haven't seen all the facts and evidence of the case, nor by any stretch am I a legal expert. I can't even determine definitely that Floyd was going to make it even if the officer acted perfectly. That has to be taken into account also. My 2¢.

I agree with everything you said.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Knee over the neck, not on neck. If overdose is cause of death, officer is not guilty of anything.

The ME did not say overdose was definitely the cause of death, but the “likely” cause of death. The word “likely” gives prosecutors an opening.

It is probable several factors led to the death of Mr. Floyd.

peace to you

 

[Calminian]

The ME did not say overdose was definitely the cause of death, but the “likely” cause of death. The word “likely” gives prosecutors an opening.

It is probable several factors led to the death of Mr. Floyd.

peace to you

"Openings" I think is the difficult part. That's why I think murder 1 or 2 are completely off the table. Intent to murder also seems off the table, to be honest. The officer could not have known he had lethal doses of fentanyl in his system. So while I see a crime, it's not the crime the agitators are talking about.

 

[Reynolds]

The ME did not say overdose was definitely the cause of death, but the “likely” cause of death. The word “likely” gives prosecutors an opening.

It is probable several factors led to the death of Mr. Floyd.

peace to you

No. It does not. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the criminal burden of proof. Da:"officer killed Floyd by choking him." M.E. "Floyd most likely died from drug overdose. I see no signs of asphyxiation or choking."
To any person who didnt ride the short bus, reasonable doubt was established.

No DA in their right mind would go to trial for murder with his M.E. saying its its not murder.

 

[Calminian]

No. It does not. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the criminal burden of proof. Da:"officer killed Floyd by choking him." M.E. "Floyd most likely died from drug overdose. I see no signs of asphyxiation or choking."
To any person who didnt ride the short bus, reasonable doubt was established.

No DA in their right mind would go to trial for murder with his M.E. saying its its not murder.

Pretty sure we don't have a right-minded DA.

.... and absolutely no assurance we'll have a right-minded judge or jury.

 

[canadyjd]

No. It does not. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the criminal burden of proof. Da:"officer killed Floyd by choking him." M.E. "Floyd most likely died from drug overdose. I see no signs of asphyxiation or choking."
To any person who didnt ride the short bus, reasonable doubt was established.

No DA in their right mind would go to trial for murder with his M.E. saying its its not murder.

DA: What are symptoms of drug overdose?

ME: The overdose of this drug slows the heart rate and respiration of the victim

DA: So, if the victims heart rate and respiration rate are slowed by an overdose, what effect if any would an officer sitting on the victims back and another pressing his knee on the back of the victims neck have?

ME: I saw no evidence of asphyxiation.

DA: Your honor, please direct the ME to answer the question. What effect would those actions have? Would they further restrict the victims ability to breathe?

Judge:The witness will answer the question

ME: Yes, those actions would further restrict the victims ability to breathe.

DA: And in your expert opinion, would the victim’s heart rate become so weak prior to stopping that it would be undetectable by touch?

ME: Yes, that is likely

DA: And if the officers remained on MR. Floyd’s back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew a heartbeat could no longer be detected, would that make it more likely or less likely that he could be revived and survive?

Defense: objection, calls for speculation

DA: He is an medical expert on this very issue, your honor

Judge: Overruled, the witness will answer.

ME: yes, if the officers remained on his back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew the pulse was not detected, that would make it less likely for the victim to be revived and survive.

Jury: We find the defendants guilty of voluntary manslaughter with depraved indifference.

 

[Calminian]

...Jury: We find the defendants guilty of voluntary manslaughter with depraved indifference.

It was interesting until the very end when you blew it. If the officer didn't know such actions were going to cause death, you can't call it a voluntary killing. You can call it negligent, and all kinds of other things, but in order for it to be voluntary, you have to believe you're killing someone. You would have to prove that the officer knew about the fentanyl and the fact that Floyd was close to death. You'd have to turn the officer into a medial expert.

Maybe, they can somehow make that case, but it calls for wild speculation.

I do, however, think you made the case for the officer being the cause of death. I think a jury will likely buy that, though again, just my uneducated opinion.

 

[canadyjd]

It was interesting until the very end when you blew it. If the officer didn't know such actions were going to cause death, you can't call it a voluntary killing. You can call it negligent, and all kinds of other things, but in order for it to be voluntary, you have to believe you're killing someone. You would have to prove that the officer knew about the fentanyl and the fact that Floyd was close to death. You'd have to turn the officer into a medial expert.

Maybe, they can somehow make that case, but it calls for wild speculation.

I do, however, think you made the case for the officer being the cause of death. I think a jury will likely buy that, though again, just my uneducated opinion.

I always appreciate your candid, but civil, assessments.

From one non-expert opinion to another, thanks for the input.

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

DA: What are symptoms of drug overdose?

ME: The overdose of this drug slows the heart rate and respiration of the victim

DA: So, if the victims heart rate and respiration rate are slowed by an overdose, what effect if any would an officer sitting on the victims back and another pressing his knee on the back of the victims neck have?

ME: I saw no evidence of asphyxiation.

DA: Your honor, please direct the ME to answer the question. What effect would those actions have? Would they further restrict the victims ability to breathe?

Judge:The witness will answer the question

ME: Yes, those actions would further restrict the victims ability to breathe.

DA: And in your expert opinion, would the victim’s heart rate become so weak prior to stopping that it would be undetectable by touch?

ME: Yes, that is likely

DA: And if the officers remained on MR. Floyd’s back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew a heartbeat could no longer be detected, would that make it more likely or less likely that he could be revived and survive?

Defense: objection, calls for speculation

DA: He is an medical expert on this very issue, your honor

Judge: Overruled, the witness will answer.

ME: yes, if the officers remained on his back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew the pulse was not detected, that would make it less likely for the victim to be revived and survive.

Jury: We find the defendants guilty of voluntary manslaughter with depraved indifference.

Prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That level of evidence does not exist.
FYI, if the officers first aid and CPR training expired, he had no duty past calling for help. Our training was always expired. We made sure of it. I am sure his was as well.

How many Jury trials you been in?
How many murder trials?

This is all political. Judge will have to deliver directed verdict when motion is made. No legal choice but to do so.

 

[canadyjd]

....
How many Jury trials you been in?
How many murder trials?

This is all political. Judge will have to deliver directed verdict when motion is made. No legal choice but to do so.

Two. One. As a juror.

I have always stated I will give LEO the benefit of the doubt. They make split second decisions of life and death.

This event was not a split second decision. It was criminal, not political

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

....
To any person who didnt ride the short bus, reasonable doubt was established.....

I don’t know what “ride the short bus means” means.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

.....FYI, if the officers first aid and CPR training expired, he had no duty past calling for help. Our training was always expired. We made sure of it. I am sure his was as well.....

So, as a LEO first responder you “made sure” your first aid and CPR training was “always expired” so you wouldn’t be required to help people. And you are sure the same can be said of the officer kneeling on the neck.

That is disgraceful. You should be ashamed.

As I said before, I am so glad you are a retired LEO.

peace to you

 

[carpro]

New court documents have uncovered two memorandums, dated May 26 and June 1, that suggest Chief Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker concluded George Floyd likely died from fentanyl overdose and found “no physical evidence suggesting” that he died of asphyxiation.

Medical Examiner Concluded George Floyd Likely Died Of Fentanyl Overdose, Court Docs Reveal

Not really much of a surprise, Is it?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

DA: What are symptoms of drug overdose?

ME: The overdose of this drug slows the heart rate and respiration of the victim

DA: So, if the victims heart rate and respiration rate are slowed by an overdose, what effect if any would an officer sitting on the victims back and another pressing his knee on the back of the victims neck have?

ME: I saw no evidence of asphyxiation.

DA: Your honor, please direct the ME to answer the question. What effect would those actions have? Would they further restrict the victims ability to breathe?

Judge:The witness will answer the question

ME: Yes, those actions would further restrict the victims ability to breathe.

DA: And in your expert opinion, would the victim’s heart rate become so weak prior to stopping that it would be undetectable by touch?

ME: Yes, that is likely

DA: And if the officers remained on MR. Floyd’s back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew a heartbeat could no longer be detected, would that make it more likely or less likely that he could be revived and survive?

Defense: objection, calls for speculation

DA: He is an medical expert on this very issue, your honor

Judge: Overruled, the witness will answer.

ME: yes, if the officers remained on his back and neck for 2:45 secs after they knew the pulse was not detected, that would make it less likely for the victim to be revived and survive.

Jury: We find the defendants guilty of voluntary manslaughter with depraved indifference.

Such totally disconnected testimony would prove nothing for your case. Where is the testimony establishing that the officers knew or could know this situation was a drug overdose? Where is the testimony establishing that without the officers presence and actions, this would not have been a case of drug overdose resulting in death?

 

[canadyjd]

Such totally disconnected testimony would prove nothing for your case. Where is the testimony establishing that the officers knew or could know this situation was a drug overdose? Where is the testimony establishing that without the officers presence and actions, this would not have been a case of drug overdose resulting in death?

The officers knew they couldn’t find a pulse on Mr. Floyd. They were told by another officer he couldn’t find a pulse. That is critical.

A reasonable person could logically conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the decision to keep the knee on the neck and on his back for 2:45 secs after being informed a pulse could not be found was to make certain Mr. Floyd would not be revived and death would be certain.

There is no legal reason for a LEO to stay on top of a handcuffed suspect that is unresponsive, unconscious, and with no detectable pulse. They stayed on him for 2:45 secs.

peace to you

edit for clarity

 

[Reynolds]

So, as a LEO first responder you “made sure” your first aid and CPR training was “always expired” so you wouldn’t be required to help people. And you are sure the same can be said of the officer kneeling on the neck.

That is disgraceful. You should be ashamed.

As I said before, I am so glad you are a retired LEO.

peace to you

Yep. Always made sure they were expired just as everyone else I worked with also did. We are Police, not Paramedics. Logistical and liability issues. We were told in the Academy to not renew our CPR and First aid certifications when they expired.

 

[Reynolds]

Two. One. As a juror.

I have always stated I will give LEO the benefit of the doubt. They make split second decisions of life and death.

This event was not a split second decision. It was criminal, not political

peace to you

Two. Wow. I was usually in court two times a week.

 

[canadyjd]

Yep. Always made sure they were expired just as everyone else I worked with also did. We are Police, not Paramedics. Logistical and liability issues. We were told in the Academy to not renew our CPR and First aid certifications when they expired.

Shameful.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

Two. One. As a juror.

What was the charge

and what was the other occasion?

 

[canadyjd]

Two. Wow. I was usually in court two times a week.

Trying to explain to the judge why you searched the vehicles of blacks, without probable cause, because they were rude to you, no doubt.

Glad you are retired

peace to you