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"Members Only Communion"?
- Thread starter JLBS13
- Start date
I visited such a church - years ago --- I asked the pastor why. He told me that it was the responsibility of the church to ensure that the person receiving the communion was actually saved (and possibly living a Christian life" So I asked him - so if a missionary your church financially supports - were to visit your church on communion Sunday - could he partake - the pastor said - "NO". "But," I continued "dont you know that he is saved and living a fruitful Christian life?" His wife said "that's an interesting question!" I do not remember what the pastor said! - this was at the pastors home - from the Bible Baptist Mission, Zweiburecken, Germany. Another belief is that have is that women could not vote in business meetings. In addition - they are fans of "The Trail of Blood"
I have no idea if it's trending, but it is not new.
Usually called "closed communion," it is restricted to members, the only people who are under the jurisdiction of the local church.
"Close communion" allows communion to be served to those of "like faith and order." That was the practice of the Southern Baptist church in which I grew up; Baptist churches variously extend that to the denomination, or to Baptists in general, or even of those outside the denomination that adhere to Baptistic principles. It's up to the local church.
Among Primitive Baptists, those from other Primitive Baptist churches with whom the local church is in fellowship normally allow such visitors to take communion. When I attended a Primitive Baptist service I would not be allowed to partake even though I was a Southern Baptists. In addition, if I had wanted to join the congregation I would have been required to be baptized as a Primitive even though I had already been immersed in a Southern Baptist Church.
We formerly had an Orthodox Presbyterian church in town that allowed visitors to take communion, but only after talking with the elders so they could be sure the visitors were able to participate.
Usually called "closed communion," it is restricted to members, the only people who are under the jurisdiction of the local church.
"Close communion" allows communion to be served to those of "like faith and order." That was the practice of the Southern Baptist church in which I grew up; Baptist churches variously extend that to the denomination, or to Baptists in general, or even of those outside the denomination that adhere to Baptistic principles. It's up to the local church.
Among Primitive Baptists, those from other Primitive Baptist churches with whom the local church is in fellowship normally allow such visitors to take communion. When I attended a Primitive Baptist service I would not be allowed to partake even though I was a Southern Baptists. In addition, if I had wanted to join the congregation I would have been required to be baptized as a Primitive even though I had already been immersed in a Southern Baptist Church.
We formerly had an Orthodox Presbyterian church in town that allowed visitors to take communion, but only after talking with the elders so they could be sure the visitors were able to participate.
I wonder where the idea that it was up to the church to determine if another is saved (and how exactly this would be done).
Scripture does give a warning against taking the Supper in an unworthy way, and about searching one's own heart. But it seems that these warnings are to the individual, and their responsibility as they may suffer.
Scripture does give a warning against taking the Supper in an unworthy way, and about searching one's own heart. But it seems that these warnings are to the individual, and their responsibility as they may suffer.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Sort of … is not “communion” an act taken by and for the “community”? Does Paul not speak of it as something done when we (the Body) gathers together? Were the letters that discuss the subject not written to the local Church (body of believers) collectively?
If so, then it is not unreasonable to ensure that one invited to the table for an act of unity should be a member of “the body” and those not of the body should not be invited to share in the Lord. What part have the children of light to be in union with the children of darkness?
I do not agree with “closed communion”, but I understand it.
I do not know that communion is an act taken by the community as much as an individual act. When Jesus said "do this..." I see Him addressing the Disciples as a group. But at the same time I see the command to reconcile one with another as an individual command, as well as the negative consequences being individual.
But maybe different views about the Supper influence different standards of practice.
I view the Supper very much like I view baptism.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Does a person go off alone to be baptized in private as a special moment between just them and God (like a prayer closet) or is it an act performed before the entire Church community acknowledging the arrival of a new member into the Church family?
Church is collective, not individual. God saves “individuals”, but that makes them part of ONE BODY, with all its members being joined together. So all the “ordinances” and “sacraments” (of all denominations) are ultimately a collective endeavor of the ONE body.
At least that is how I came to see it.
“Blood in and Blood out” … only it is no longer all about our blood.
No, a person neither takes the Supper in isolation or baptized himself.
But, just like communion, with baptism the church leadership (or even the congregation) is not the determining factor of whether one is saved.
Baptism is a personal act, in the Baptist view of an individual stating that he has been saved (is a partakers of the New Covenant). Likewise, communion is an act of affirming participation in this covenant.
Do you know of a passage where baptism or communion is denied, awaiting confirmation from the leaders of a congregation? There are none. We deny ourselves the Supper when there are things in our lives that hamper communion.
Look...I get both sides (open and closed communion).
But I can't help but see a Catholic influence in closed communion (giving the Supper over to religious leaders rather than the covenant act in remembrance it was intended to represent).
I see your point and it still comes down to the way you interpret the passage, but 1 Cor. 11 says that if we judge ourselves, we would not be judged of God.
Judging self is the responsibility of the individual.
Again, I can see where the closed communion person might say the church should judge itself. I would still disagree. If the church was sickly and dying, meaning all the members, as was the case, for example, with the serpents in the wilderness, I would say it was the church. Since it is many among you, it sounds like a lot of them had problems, which they did. It’s all over the book.
Judging is a personal responsibility, hence, the eating and drinking damnation to themselves and not to the assembly.
From another recent thread on the subject.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
When you sit down with your family to have supper, you do not expect the next door neighbor to walk in and sit down at your table and start eating. That is not because you are judging the man that lives next door to be a bad husband and father, but it is because the man that lives next door is not known to be part of your family. Your “family supper” is a family matter. The communion, is a Church family matter. So some churches view it like a “Thanksgiving open house” where anyone that is a relative or friend of a relative is welcome to just drop in and join the party, and other churches treat it like “family supper” where only people you know are family are invited to the table.
I see it as more of a difference in what the communion means and symbolizes than a matter of “judging” someone else.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
from Understanding Baptism (SBC Life)
Christian Ordinances … or Church Ordinances?
In the Baptist Faith and Message we state that baptism and the Lord's Supper are both Christian ordinances and church ordinances, exercised under the authority of the local church by those whom each church appoints to administer them. Sometimes, in our eagerness to embrace our individual responsibility in carrying out the Great Commission, we fail to see that observing the ordinances is not only a matter involving the individual but the Body of Christ — the fellowship of believers, the local church — as well.
The Scripture reveals a doctrine of the Church that gradually unfolded during its early history. In the Gospels we find the Lord speaking to the apostles about the foundation of the Church. It is to be built upon Him. In Matthew 28:18-20, He speaks to the eleven disciples, commissioning them and saying that all He has taught and authorized them to do, they are to teach others to do as well. Thus the commission remains valid right down to us today.
In Acts we then see the advent of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) who will now take up residence in every member of Christ's Bride, His Church. It is through the work of the Holy Spirit that the Church becomes His Body, a representation of Christ Himself on earth today. In that same book we then begin to discover both teachings and examples for certain practices in the church such as the establishment of deacons, the importance of giving, church government, decision-making, and ordaining individuals for specific missions and ministry. And it is here that we find early examples of the oversight and authority exercised in regard to the ordinances (See, for instance, Acts 10:47-48).
As the doctrine of the Church unfolds throughout the Book of Acts, it becomes increasingly evident that the Lord's commission is to be fulfilled, not outside or apart from, but rather through our participation within the Body of Christ, represented by the local church (lower case "c"). As Paul said, we are all like different parts of a body, and it is when we are "fitly joined together" that we experience increase in the church (Ephesians 4:16). In other words, it is God's intention that, with Christ as the Head, each member of His Body will play an important role in the health of any local church.
Proceeding through the epistles we discover even more about this remarkable body, represented in the church. We find that it is to be primarily considered in its local sense for reasons of accountability and doctrinal purity (note the references to the church at Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, Corinth, and the churches in Galatia). Here we begin to receive even more detailed teaching and helpful examples of the ministries and practices of the local church. We discover that the ordinances are exercised under the authority of the local church, given as a means of insuring accountability, enabling discipline, and protecting doctrinal integrity. They are both personally and corporately significant. Thus Paul can write that an individual should "examine himself" on the occasion of "coming together" with the church to the Lord's Table (See 1 Corinthians 11:23-31).
Like Faith and Practice
With sufficient scriptural example and precept, Southern Baptists have affirmed that membership in our churches is a responsibility to be exercised by those who observe the ordinances in a manner befitting the concept of "like faith and practice (or order)." This simply means that, in terms of "like faith," we believe salvation comes by the grace of God alone and through faith in Christ alone. Similarly, "like practice, or order" refers to our belief that according to Scripture, salvation precedes baptism (Matthew 28:18-19) and baptism precedes both the consequent membership in a local fellowship (Colossians 2:11-12) and the observance of the Lord's Supper (1 Corinthians 10:16-17). Because of this sequential emphasis, many Southern Baptists prefer the term "order" rather than "practice," though the latter term may include the sequential order as well.
Most Southern Baptist churches and each of our agencies use "like faith and practice" (or, "like faith and order") as the litmus test for fellowship, membership, and service. This means that our members (and ultimately those involved in ministry or missions through our mutually-supported entities) have been baptized in Southern Baptist churches or under the authority of churches of like faith and practice.
When is Baptism Properly Administered?
Using the Scripture as a guide, we find that the ordinance of baptism is properly observed when five issues are satisfactorily addressed:
1. The proper candidate. This would be someone who has already experienced the grace of God unto salvation and now desires to make that a matter of open confession (See Acts 8:36-38; 10:47-48).
2. The proper mode. This is clearly immersion. The word itself is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo, which means to immerse or plunge into. This is the manner in which Christ was baptized (Matthew 3:16). It was the manner of the disciples' baptism (John 3:22-23). In fact, the picture of death, burial, and resurrection demands immersion (Romans 6:4).
3. The proper understanding. Baptism is a picture of our total identification with Christ in His atoning work and glorious resurrection. It is an expression of our belief that salvation is His work and, like His resurrected life, complete and eternal in nature. It does not affect or secure our salvation.
4. The proper authority. The ordinance of baptism is a public expression; it preaches a message. The message is one consistent with the beliefs of the church authorizing the baptism. Thus, in the understanding of church authority that unfolds for us in the New Testament, Peter could ask of the representatives of the Jerusalem church who apparently accompanied him to the house of Cornelius the Centurion, "Why should these not be baptized seeing they have received the Spirit as did we on the day of Pentecost?" (Acts 10:47-48). If a local church does not feel that a candidate's beliefs are in concert with its own, it should resolve that issue before granting participation. It is obvious in the Scripture that, in addition to the profession of the candidate, there is an obligation on the part of the church. Otherwise Paul was overstepping his bounds in his instructions to the Corinthian church (1 Corinthians 11).
5. The proper life. Baptism is to be observed by individuals who portray an appreciation of grace and a willingness to adhere to the Scriptures. When the eunuch asked Philip if he could be baptized, Philip responded by clarifying the eunuch's confession of faith (Acts 8:36-37).
Christian Ordinances … or Church Ordinances?
In the Baptist Faith and Message we state that baptism and the Lord's Supper are both Christian ordinances and church ordinances, exercised under the authority of the local church by those whom each church appoints to administer them. Sometimes, in our eagerness to embrace our individual responsibility in carrying out the Great Commission, we fail to see that observing the ordinances is not only a matter involving the individual but the Body of Christ — the fellowship of believers, the local church — as well.
The Scripture reveals a doctrine of the Church that gradually unfolded during its early history. In the Gospels we find the Lord speaking to the apostles about the foundation of the Church. It is to be built upon Him. In Matthew 28:18-20, He speaks to the eleven disciples, commissioning them and saying that all He has taught and authorized them to do, they are to teach others to do as well. Thus the commission remains valid right down to us today.
In Acts we then see the advent of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) who will now take up residence in every member of Christ's Bride, His Church. It is through the work of the Holy Spirit that the Church becomes His Body, a representation of Christ Himself on earth today. In that same book we then begin to discover both teachings and examples for certain practices in the church such as the establishment of deacons, the importance of giving, church government, decision-making, and ordaining individuals for specific missions and ministry. And it is here that we find early examples of the oversight and authority exercised in regard to the ordinances (See, for instance, Acts 10:47-48).
As the doctrine of the Church unfolds throughout the Book of Acts, it becomes increasingly evident that the Lord's commission is to be fulfilled, not outside or apart from, but rather through our participation within the Body of Christ, represented by the local church (lower case "c"). As Paul said, we are all like different parts of a body, and it is when we are "fitly joined together" that we experience increase in the church (Ephesians 4:16). In other words, it is God's intention that, with Christ as the Head, each member of His Body will play an important role in the health of any local church.
Proceeding through the epistles we discover even more about this remarkable body, represented in the church. We find that it is to be primarily considered in its local sense for reasons of accountability and doctrinal purity (note the references to the church at Jerusalem, Rome, Ephesus, Corinth, and the churches in Galatia). Here we begin to receive even more detailed teaching and helpful examples of the ministries and practices of the local church. We discover that the ordinances are exercised under the authority of the local church, given as a means of insuring accountability, enabling discipline, and protecting doctrinal integrity. They are both personally and corporately significant. Thus Paul can write that an individual should "examine himself" on the occasion of "coming together" with the church to the Lord's Table (See 1 Corinthians 11:23-31).
Like Faith and Practice
With sufficient scriptural example and precept, Southern Baptists have affirmed that membership in our churches is a responsibility to be exercised by those who observe the ordinances in a manner befitting the concept of "like faith and practice (or order)." This simply means that, in terms of "like faith," we believe salvation comes by the grace of God alone and through faith in Christ alone. Similarly, "like practice, or order" refers to our belief that according to Scripture, salvation precedes baptism (Matthew 28:18-19) and baptism precedes both the consequent membership in a local fellowship (Colossians 2:11-12) and the observance of the Lord's Supper (1 Corinthians 10:16-17). Because of this sequential emphasis, many Southern Baptists prefer the term "order" rather than "practice," though the latter term may include the sequential order as well.
Most Southern Baptist churches and each of our agencies use "like faith and practice" (or, "like faith and order") as the litmus test for fellowship, membership, and service. This means that our members (and ultimately those involved in ministry or missions through our mutually-supported entities) have been baptized in Southern Baptist churches or under the authority of churches of like faith and practice.
When is Baptism Properly Administered?
Using the Scripture as a guide, we find that the ordinance of baptism is properly observed when five issues are satisfactorily addressed:
1. The proper candidate. This would be someone who has already experienced the grace of God unto salvation and now desires to make that a matter of open confession (See Acts 8:36-38; 10:47-48).
2. The proper mode. This is clearly immersion. The word itself is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo, which means to immerse or plunge into. This is the manner in which Christ was baptized (Matthew 3:16). It was the manner of the disciples' baptism (John 3:22-23). In fact, the picture of death, burial, and resurrection demands immersion (Romans 6:4).
3. The proper understanding. Baptism is a picture of our total identification with Christ in His atoning work and glorious resurrection. It is an expression of our belief that salvation is His work and, like His resurrected life, complete and eternal in nature. It does not affect or secure our salvation.
4. The proper authority. The ordinance of baptism is a public expression; it preaches a message. The message is one consistent with the beliefs of the church authorizing the baptism. Thus, in the understanding of church authority that unfolds for us in the New Testament, Peter could ask of the representatives of the Jerusalem church who apparently accompanied him to the house of Cornelius the Centurion, "Why should these not be baptized seeing they have received the Spirit as did we on the day of Pentecost?" (Acts 10:47-48). If a local church does not feel that a candidate's beliefs are in concert with its own, it should resolve that issue before granting participation. It is obvious in the Scripture that, in addition to the profession of the candidate, there is an obligation on the part of the church. Otherwise Paul was overstepping his bounds in his instructions to the Corinthian church (1 Corinthians 11).
5. The proper life. Baptism is to be observed by individuals who portray an appreciation of grace and a willingness to adhere to the Scriptures. When the eunuch asked Philip if he could be baptized, Philip responded by clarifying the eunuch's confession of faith (Acts 8:36-37).
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I was serving communion one day. A lady took her cup and bread - then her child - about age 4 - wanted to take some. I raised the plate so he could not get it. After I went back up front - mom came up and got some for her son. - I was flabbergasted.
Thoughts?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Mom was well meaning but wrong.
Communion is for those that have trusted in Christ for their salvation which is something that a four year old child would not understand but the mother should have..
Benjamin Keach (prominent Particular Baptist of the 1600s):
"God hath in our days wrought by his Spirit, savingly on several little Children, some three or four years old, others about six or seven"
p. 16, “A Counter-Antidote…Wherein the Baptism of Believers Is Evinced to Be God’s Ordinance” by Benjamin Keach (London, 1694)
I don’t have a problem with a church doing communion their own way.
It’s not the way I see it though. We are told to tarry one for another. It doesn’t fit with the “stranger in your house” teaching from Passover.
There is enough Scripture for me to say that it is between our High Priest and the individual.
But I am also not pushing for someone to offend someone else’s conscience. I would never go in and demand it or walk up and help my kid to the plate.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
My philosophy is "their house, their rules", so I am respectful of the "house rules" wherever I go [irrespective of whether I agree or disagree].I don’t have a problem with a church doing communion their own way.
It’s not the way I see it though. We are told to tarry one for another. It doesn’t fit with the “stranger in your house” teaching from Passover.
There is enough Scripture for me to say that it is between our High Priest and the individual.
But I am also not pushing for someone to offend someone else’s conscience. I would never go in and demand it or walk up and help my kid to the plate.
That applies to visiting a church while out of town, or participating on a FORUM. So if THEY have an "open table" and I am personally comfortable partaking with them, then I would join with them. If they have a "closed table" or I am not comfortable partaking with them, then I would abstain for both our sake.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
If your table was "fenced" (open only to "members") then she was probably wrong ... as it is unlikely that a 4-year old had been confirmed as a member of your church.
If your table is "open" (available to any who are saved), then it is a matter between the mother and God ... she knows her child better than you and may have seen evidence of God in their life [R.C. Sproul was saved by 4 years old according to his personal testimony, so who are we to "forbid one of these little ones"?]
It is either our job to protect the table, or it is not. Each church (local body) should be firmly convinced in its own mind and act on faith accordingly: permit or abstain, each to the honor of God.