Men who perhaps aren't accustomed to discussing the Bible with women ....

[Scarlett O.]

....did I get your attention? Good.

There is a thread that was just closed and my post saying this was next to last. The last post was from someone agreeing with me that some men perhaps aren't used to having Bible discussions with women and he raised a question about respect for wives.

I typed a response because I didn't want ANYONE thinking that I was raising that doubt in my post.

Please let me clear that up.

Here's my post that was too late.

How can men hold the attitude that "women tend to be more content at the shallow end of the spiritual pool" and still treat their wives with respect and love in having daily devotionals with them?

The man who made this statement a while back and I would rather not bring his name into this - I don't know if he is married, but I assume he is - I think I'm one of the few single people here.

Anyway - I can tell by his posts and the way that he talks that he IS respectful to his wife. I don't and didn't hold this comment he made against him. I don't want anyone else to either. He is a smart guy and a nice guy. I don't adhere to the same things he does always, but I have no qualms with him personally.

It's just how it is. There are quite a few great guys that don't have a lot of experience talking about Biblical matters with women. Some do. Some are awkward and overly cautious with it. I can't begin to tell you how many men here over that past decade+ have private messaged me about something and began with "Hello. I am a happily married man." And then they ask the question or tell me something. I get tickled every time that happens.

I've had one really wonderful guy tell me, "It's not that I don't think women don't have anything good to say about the Bible. I just don't like listening to them talk".

Then again, some men, come out with guns a'blazing and will discuss anything with anyone. That's fine, too.

It just depends on a man's experience with talking with a woman that is not his wife.

Here's a good one that will give you a belly laugh ... in fact, it made me giggle out loud just remembering it.

On another forum a few years ago, a man made an incorrect interpretation of a Bible passage. It wasn't just my opinion that he was wrong. If I told you what he has said, you would roll your eyes.

Anyway .... I gently corrected him and he accepted it.

Yet ANOTHER poster came by and said to him, "Wow!! You just got schooled, brother. And by a woman at that. How embarrassing for you!"

What was I supposed to say to that? :laugh: I just let it go. But I still laugh to myself when I think about it.

Anyway, it wasn't my intent to make anyone feel like the man who made this statement about women and shallow pools of spirituality had any disdain for women. He doesn't. I would be able to tell if he did.

It just is what it is.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I'd like to further clarify your clarification. :laugh:

I wasn't reacting to your post as much as raising another question. And, if I may, here is the entirety of my reply to your post.

Excellent post, Scarlett. It describes my experience in attempting to bring sanity to the debate of Calvinism last week. It didn't take a half-dozen posts for the thread to deteriorate into spewing and name calling that left me unwilling to even go back to it, and I was the one who started it.

This last paragraph here [Note: referring to Scarlett's post], all of us men on here should read and re-read. And you mention above, also, that women are marginalized in these "discussions" and that men don't want to discuss biblical things with women. I have to wonder, what do we do in doing studies and devotionals with our wives? I have a study time with my wife every evening before we go to bed. I think it is essential to the well-being of our marriage and for our individual spiritual growth, to share and understand the Bible together. If we don't see exactly eye to eye, we should discuss those differences, iron them out if possible. I believe that were we to interpret the Bible differently, it would undermine our confidence in each other, and certainly in her trust in me as the spiritual head of the household.

How can men hold the attitude that "women tend to be more content at the shallow end of the spiritual pool" and still treat their wives with respect and love in having daily devotionals with them? The answer is, we will either treat them as lessor beings, or we won't engage with them in Bible study at all. Either would be a travesty, and a denial of our marriage vows. She is an equal, it is just that God has placed me in the position of having the final word regarding spiritual things, and if I treat her as anything other than my equal, she will never respect my decisions in that realm, or any other.

I believe there are a lot more men than perhaps you realize, Scarlett, who are not just having difficulty talking to a woman, even their wives, about the Bible, but many actually consider it a waste of time. That's not to say there are a majority of men here on BB who hold that attitude, or even "many." But one or two, particularly for married men, is too many.

I wonder if men would be willing to share their ability -- or inability -- to hold a biblical discussion with a woman, especially their wives? Can we see, please?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I wonder if men would be willing to share their ability -- or inability -- to hold a biblical discussion with a woman, especially their wives? Can we see, please?

Apparently not.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have never had a problem with it. Not sure why any men would.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I have never had a problem with it. Not sure why any men would.

I'm not either. But I'm pretty sure there are few on the board that do. Not sure why, exactly, I say that. Just a feeling.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm not either. But I'm pretty sure there are few on the board that do. Not sure why, exactly, I say that. Just a feeling.

Huh, maybe they would be better served on an all mens board.

 

[Zenas]

I will share my experience. My wife has very little interest in discussing the Bible. She has read hundreds of books on things like the Spirit filled life and walking with Christ, what I call “feel good” books. She also reads several chapters of the Bible each day, but she has no interest in things like comparing John to the synoptic gospels or evaluating Calvinism by scripture. No interest at all in these things. She teaches a women’s Sunday School class and they think she is brilliant. However, if she taught my Sunday School class the men would find her boring.

I believe she is typical of most women. I believe if such records were kept, we would discover that nearly all “feel good” books are purchased by women. On the other hand, I believe nearly all commentaries and technical books about the Bible are purchased by men.

It’s the old “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” syndrome. This doesn’t mean women are inferior, it just means they use their right brain more than men do and this creates a divide between the sexes. It also means that a man to woman discussion of the Bible is improbable because each party to the conversation will try to steer it away from the points of interest to the other.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I believe she is typical of most women. I believe if such records were kept, we would discover that nearly all “feel good” books are purchased by women. On the other hand, I believe nearly all commentaries and technical books about the Bible are purchased by men.

This is kind of disturbing, Zenas. On what experience do you base this on? What tells you your wife is "typical of most women"? Hope you don't feel I'm putting you on the spot. That's not my intent.

It’s the old “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” syndrome.

It's more like "Men THINK Women are from Venus." If most men would take the time to understand that women think differently than we as men do, they'd discover it isn't that they're from another planet, they just see this one differently than do we. It doesn't take much to figure out how they think, and then begin to actually enjoy communication with them.

 

[saturneptune]

This is kind of disturbing, Zenas. On what experience do you base this on? What tells you your wife is "typical of most women"? Hope you don't feel I'm putting you on the spot.

Good post............

It is kind of disturbing, and the poster should have been put on the spot. To classify women in relation to spiritual maturity with one stoke of the brush is about as out of line as one can get. Each of us is a unique creation of God, each with our own personality and thought patterns. There are certain characteristics that bond men together and women together, but the depth of spiritual maturity is not one of them.

Posters like Scarlett and Amy are very spiritually mature based on the history of their posts. Then again, there are many posters on this board (one cannot be sure of anything in an online forum) that claim to be male, and have up to a decade of seminary or some other career degree, and post like they did not make it out of the coloring book stage of 1st grade Sunday School. All I can say is that if their posts are true as to their identity, lots of money was wasted on tuition.

Since in a marriage two become one, talking about Scripture and devotional time between a man and his wife should almost be like talking to yourself. What other person, other than the Lord, is closer to you than a spouse? If there is an imbalance between the man and the woman in spiritual maturity (it could be either way), then does it only make sense that with years of exchanging thoughts about Scripture daily that the one that started less spiritually mature would grow in the Lord due to devotion time?

It is beyond imagination that a Christian man who loves his wife would act like he are her on the same level, and in reality, believe her to be a spiritual novice and treat her as such daily resulting in no growth. That is totally dishonest and in reality, talking down to someone, instead of helping the most important person in your life grow. If one is dishonest in the spiritual area of marriage, what other departments in marriage are being treated dishonestly?

 

[agedman]

Actually, my wife has taken more than one test that shows she uses both sides of her brain equally.

I barely use one.

She and I share the Scriptures, but not in a "bible study" fashion. More in a casual topic talk in which we both verify points with a Scripture or principle from the Scriptures.

Neither one is the "leader" of the "devotion" but enjoy the shared expressions.

I will state that I am VERY careful not to "preach" or even slip into problem solver mode - that is just a killer to the relationship. It took some years but I learned that most often she doesn't want to hear my solution to a problem. She wants to vent about the problem and us reflect TOGETHER upon the principles of Scriptures in which the problem may or may not be an issue.

It is important to her that she be at ease with sharing and expressing - without her husband casting judgment and giving what he thinks are reasoned solutions.

I take it as one of those woman need attributes that men don't understand, but do do if they expect a happy wife.

It is far better to sit beside each other and snuggle while we rejoice in the goodness of God, the blessings of past hurtful experiences, the hope of the soon return - yet deep understanding that judgment is coming, and deep thankfulness and wonder that God lead us before, and during our marriage - despite all our failures.

Spending that quiet time together in reflection and openness in which either of us is able to take the time expressing concerns or fears (no matter the topic) without the other partner becoming defensive or offensive has been a huge strength building item.

I heard about a man who complained that his wife left him right after devotions. They read the Scriptures, they prayed and she got up and left. When asked why, the wife said, "He never listened to me."

I don't care what my wife reads or what she wants to share. That she shares and can feel totally at ease in sharing anything and everything with me is what is important.

 

[evangelist6589]

Scarlett,

Its not that I/we do not want to talk with women, its just that in many cases women are not interested. In my last church, unfortunately women seemed to have dictated how the Nursing Home and or other ministries where ran. As a result they were very emotional and not as Biblical. The women influenced the men and brainwashed them to believe that preaching REPENTANCE was not important, but singing songs, and meeting felt needs of elderly was more important. No argument I brought to them did any good, as they had no interest in biblical exegesis. Regarding my wife she too has little interest in theology or doctrine. She thinks whatever the pastor says, and is not a Berean whom checks things out for herself unfortunately. This is why Paul commended the Bereans as being very noble.

I have had this experience too often with women whom do not seem interested in biblical exegesis, theology, or apologetics. Not saying they all are like this, but many are.

....did I get your attention? Good.

There is a thread that was just closed and my post saying this was next to last. The last post was from someone agreeing with me that some men perhaps aren't used to having Bible discussions with women and he raised a question about respect for wives.

I typed a response because I didn't want ANYONE thinking that I was raising that doubt in my post.

Please let me clear that up.

Here's my post that was too late.

 

[Zenas]

This is kind of disturbing, Zenas. On what experience do you base this on? What tells you your wife is "typical of most women"? Hope you don't feel I'm putting you on the spot. That's not my intent.
It's more like "Men THINK Women are from Venus." If most men would take the time to understand that women think differently than we as men do, they'd discover it isn't that they're from another planet, they just see this one differently than do we. It doesn't take much to figure out how they think, and then begin to actually enjoy communication with them.

I'll clarify a couple of things but otherwise stand on what I said. First I'm not implying that women are less intelligent or that they are not capable of serious Bible study. I am saying that women, when given the choice, will gravitate to the feel good stuff. If you think I'm wrong, maybe you ought to get out a little more.

Second, the Mars / Venus thing is not my idea. It's the title of a psychology book that came out about 20 years ago. It contains a lot of psychobabble but the author's premise is valid, that men and women are wired differently. If you don't understand that you haven't interacted with very many women.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I find that most woman really do not enjoy talking about theology or deep doctrinal things.

I would be totally comfortable talking about spiritual conversations with woman though.

 

[Benjamin]

It doesn't take much to figure out how they think, and then begin to actually enjoy communication with them.

Whoa! That's a bold statement. Curious, do you tell them that often before this communication begins? :laugh:

I'm trying to envision this: "It's all black and white to me babe, it doesn't take me much to know exactly how you think honey..." :laugh:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Whoa! That's a bold statement.

Not really. It's simply educating one's self about the nature of God's creation.

Curious, do you tell them that often before this communication begins? :laugh:

I don't have to. They can tell when someone understands them. Once we get past the traditional "Men/Mars, Women/Venus" nonsense that my secular colleagues in the counseling and psychological fields have spewed for years, anyone can talk to anyone.

I'm trying to envision this: "It's all black and white to me babe, it doesn't take me much to know exactly how you think honey..." :laugh:

That's arrogance. Typical male nonsense. :laugh:

 

[padredurand]

Hush, now, Ms. Scarlett. Everybody knows that a woman's place is in the home and she should go there immediately after work. You leave the heavy thinking to the men folk where it belongs. :tongue3:

I've been blessed with a wife of deep intelligence and wisdom. I would be a fool not to pick her brain now and again. I guess some fellers are intimidated by smart women.

Let me give you an example: My wife was a piano-playing, prissy preacher's kid who didn't like to go outside or get dirty. Suffice it to say I am her antithesis. I bought her a pair of tall rubber boots and convinced her to take a walk in the woods at deer camp. There's a brook that runs the hardwoods and as we get near it she hushes me. Before you know it she's standing in the middle of the brook in her tall rubber boots. The musician in her was hearing all the notes being played as the water moved and trickled over rocks and branches. She noted the birds singing and the wind whispering through the pines.

I've crossed that brook a thousand times on the way to my treestand and never paid attention to the symphony. She cited this Psalm...

Let the sea roar and all it contains, The world and those who dwell in it.
Let the rivers clap their hands; Let the mountains sing together for joy
Psalms 98:7-8​

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I'll clarify a couple of things but otherwise stand on what I said. First I'm not implying that women are less intelligent or that they are not capable of serious Bible study. I am saying that women, when given the choice, will gravitate to the feel good stuff. If you think I'm wrong, maybe you ought to get out a little more.

I'm an LAC and LMFC. I see plenty of women, believe me. Assuming women gravitate to "feel good stuff" is pretty much what feminists used to call male chauvinism, and while I don't qualify it as being that lowly, it's pretty close. Women are no more likely to gravitate to "feel good stuff" than men are likely to gravitate to superficial, non-essential communication about sports and the weather, which is the unfair rap on us as a gender.

Second, the Mars / Venus thing is not my idea. It's the title of a psychology book that came out about 20 years ago.

I know, and its so far off base as to be laughable.

It contains a lot of psychobabble but the author's premise is valid, that men and women are wired differently.

That much is true, but he got it completely wrong. We aren't that different. We just think differently, and it isn't that difficult to figure out, once you take the time.

If you don't understand that you haven't interacted with very many women.

Sorry, but I have to ...

Thanks for the levity. Seriously (and I don't make fun of you, Zenas, or your comments, but obviously you didn't know what I do for a living when you posted them) ...

... it took me years and years, plus my studies in psychology and counseling, to understand that women aren't that difficult to understand, communicate with or relate to. Essentially, there are significant differences between the male and female brain. This means that in most cases, men and women do not behave, feel, think, or respond in the same ways, either on the inside or on the outside.

• The male brain uses specific parts of one hemisphere or the other to accomplish specific tasks. The female brain is more diffused -- both hemispheres communicate better with one another than they do in men -- and women utilize significant portions of both hemispheres for a variety of tasks.
• Men are able to focus on narrow issues and block out unrelated information and distractions, and focus their brains on specific tasks or activities for long periods of time without tiring. Women naturally see everyday things from a broader, "big-picture" vantage point, and are better equipped to divide their attention among multiple activities or tasks. This is a direct result of the hemispheric communication in both genders.
• Men are able to separate information, stimulus, emotions, relationships, etc. into separate compartments in their brains, while women tend to link everything together. No offense to women, but this is why men are better able to react in an emergency, setting aside the emotional reaction in favor of the necessity to take action. It is also why men are more prone to PTSD, because we forget to pick up the emotional set and deal with it later. Women, on the other hand, hesitate in acting -- not always, but sometimes -- because the emotional input overwhelms their reaction times.
• Men see individual issues with parts of their brain, while women look at the holistic or multiple issues with their whole brain (both hemispheres). This is likely why some men might think women tend toward the "feel good stuff" -- they can blend the emotional and intellectual reactions far better than we can, meaning they get a more direct connection to the intellectual and emotional aspects of a discussion that we do. This aspect of male/female thinking, though, is also behind the differing emergency/reaction/PTSD responses I mentioned above.
• Men have as much as 20 times more testosterone in their systems than do women, meaning men typically are more aggressive, dominant and more narrowly focused on the physical aspects of marriage, while women are more deeply committed emotionally, intellectually and corporately -- i.e., one flesh -- than are men. Another reason some men might think women drift toward the "feel good stuff."
• In men, the dominant perceptual sense is vision, which is typically not the case with women. All of a woman's senses are, in some respects, more finely tuned than those of a man.

We don't think alike. God made us that way. But if we don't make an effort to understand that, and compartmentalize or marginalize one another -- women being just as guilty of that shortcut as are men -- we will miss the best of one another.

 

[preacher4truth]

I see the assaulting, taunting and attacking are already in full swing.

I've never had a problem talking Bible 'with a woman'. :laugh:

My wife and I discuss it often, and other women in the church do as well. It just seems normal to me, I never knew there was a problem with this whole thing.

As far as formal debating I don't happen to see women engaging in that as much as men. I also notice men seem more apt to come up and ask questions about it more so than women.

 

[Aaron]

I have never had a problem with it. Not sure why any men would.

Same here.

 

[sag38]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall as Zenas's wife finished reading what he said about her and his stereotyping of all women in this thread. I have known men who loved the feel good stuff as much as women who liked to go deeper. Zeanas has spoken his opinion. The problem is that he cannot back up his opinion with real facts other than the fact that he evidently is drawn to women he considers to be shallow.