Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays

[abcgrad94]

I think you might be guilty of being a bit generic, and making a broad accusation. Disneyland's tree is billed as a "Christmas" tree. Our local Home Depot's have "Christmas" trees on sale in their advertising. My local city is having a "Christmas" tree lighting ceremony. I think you're seeing "holiday tree" in one flyer, and using that to make a broadbrush. And even if they did, so what? A Christmas tree isn't about the birth of Christ, the last time I checked. Neither are the lights on my house or the big inflatable Santa on a motorcycl.... oh, un, nevermind.

Please give me a little more credit than this, Johnv. While reading through fliers for Black Friday, we counted no less than 13 different stores who have taken the term "Christmas" and changed it to "holidays."

This isn't about Christmas trees not being about Christ's birth. It's about a deliberate attempt by retailers to remove Christ's name in CHRISTmas in order to pacify the PC crowd, while still pandering to the commercializion of that celebration. It's hypocritical.

So far I've never seen Valentine's Day, July 4th, or Easter changed to "holiday." Perhaps it's because those days don't include the name CHRIST.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Please give me a little more credit than this, Johnv. While reading through fliers for Black Friday, we counted no less than 13 different stores who have taken the term "Christmas" and changed it to "holidays."

This isn't about Christmas trees not being about Christ's birth. It's about a deliberate attempt by retailers to remove Christ's name in CHRISTmas in order to pacify the PC crowd, while still pandering to the commercializion of that celebration. It's hypocritical.

So far I've never seen Valentine's Day, July 4th, or Easter changed to "holiday." Perhaps it's because those days don't include the name CHRIST.

I still wonder if we REALLY want the name of Christ associated with the all the commercial hype. Isn't that using the name of Christ for a secular profit?

 

[abcgrad94]

I still wonder if we REALLY want the name of Christ associated with the all the commercial hype. Isn't that using the name of Christ for a secular profit?

Now THAT is a good point! I can accept that much better than some of the other comments made in this thread.:thumbsup:

 

[Benjamin]

Now THAT is a good point! I can accept that much better than some of the other comments made in this thread.:thumbsup:

I wouldn't go that far (accept the reasoning, that is)...It borders on the "perfectionist fallacy" which reasons that -If all aspects of the issue aren't perfect then we should do away with the whole. It's nothing more than a rhetorical device to support an argument to not uphold the name "Christ" to be a practical part of our Christian celebration in my book.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Feliz Navidad! Feliz Navidad. Feliz Navidad.
Prospero ano y felicedad.

 

[mcdirector]

Merry Christmas.

(Although I am singing Feliz Navidad right now )

 

[abcgrad94]

I wouldn't go that far (accept the reasoning, that is)...It borders on the "perfectionist fallacy" which reasons that -If all aspects of the issue aren't perfect then we should do away with the whole. It's nothing more than a rhetorical device to support an argument to not uphold the name "Christ" to be a practical part of our Christian celebration in my book.

Yes, I understand that, Benjamin, but at least it was a comment with some substance to it. The replies "I don't care" or "drunks say Merry Christmas" to me have no place in this debate. At least the reasoning behind C4K's reply was logical in some way.

 

[SaggyWoman]

What did the angels say? Merry Christmas? Happy holidays? Glory in the highest!!!

 

[Marcia]

I still wonder if we REALLY want the name of Christ associated with the all the commercial hype. Isn't that using the name of Christ for a secular profit?

I think you have a good point there. Otoh, it is kind of cool to see that the world can't help itself celebrate Christmas, even if they deny Christ. It overshadows all other holidays, at least in countries where Christianity has been for awhile. I know that's cultural, but it reminds me of what Jesus said about even the stones crying out his name.

 

[Benjamin]

...but at least it was a comment with some substance to it.

Yeah, it was some pretty good rhetoric. :thumbs:

At least the reasoning behind C4K's reply was logical in some way.

Uh, again...I wouldn't go THAT far...:smilewinkgrin:


:laugh:

 

[targus]

What did the angels say? Merry Christmas? Happy holidays? Glory in the highest!!!

Good point.

"Merry" Christmas seems to be somewhat secularized.

Why do we not say:

"Have a Blessed Christmas"

"Have a Glorious Christmas"

"Have a Joyous Christmas"

or some other such less secularized thing?

 

[Salty]

Good point.

"Merry" Christmas seems to be somewhat secularized.

Why do we not say:

"Have a Blessed Christmas"

"Have a Glorious Christmas"

"Have a Joyous Christmas"

or some other such less secularized thing?

None of your recommendations are "secular" as they all include "Christ"

Yes, I do make a point of mentioning that Christ is the reason for the season. Often a clerk will say that some customers are offended if they offer "Merry Christmas". I then respond with "Well, I am offended, if you don't". I say it in a very polite manner, with the goal of a step to witnessing.

Salty

 

[Johnv]

Please give me a little more credit than this, Johnv. While reading through fliers for Black Friday, we counted no less than 13 different stores who have taken the term "Christmas" and changed it to "holidays."

Just because the word "holiday" appears, that doesn't mean it was "changed".

This isn't about Christmas trees not being about Christ's birth.

If you truly believed that, then you should encourage, and not discourage a separation between commercialization and the use of the word "Christmas".

It's about a deliberate attempt by retailers to remove Christ's name in CHRISTmas in order to pacify the PC crowd, while still pandering to the commercializion of that celebration. It's hypocritical.

Aside from the fact that "Christ" is not Jesus' name, it's likewise (if not moreso) hypocritical for us to complain about Christmas being commercialized, and then complain when the word "Christmas" is not used in said commercialization.

Complaining about the world "holidays" being used during November/December is about as ridiculous as the NAACP complaining about white sales being held during the Martin Luther King holiday.

Saying "Merry Christmas" doesn't share the gospel one iota any more or less than any other greeting. But our problem isn't the greeting "Happy Holidays", it's our attitude about it. We AUTOMATICALLY assume that every use of the phrase is because someone was instructed to use it instead of "Merry Christmas", which in and of itself is a casting by us of a false judgement upon another. Our response to "Happy Holidays" says more about us than it does about the person giving the greeting.

 

[Berean]

I was in the retail busines for 50 years and for the most part of that I used the greeting " I hope you and your family have a great holiday". Using this at the beginning of November usually was for Thanksgiving and Christmas and thought nothng about. As thr bru-hau developed over this issue I found myself using "Merry Christmas ". I guess what I really was saying was "Have a Merry Thanksgiving and Christmas".

 

[abcgrad94]

If you truly believed that, then you should encourage, and not discourage a separation between commercialization and the use of the word "Christmas".

Aside from the fact that "Christ" is not Jesus' name, it's likewise (if not moreso) hypocritical for us to complain about Christmas being commercialized, and then complain when the word "Christmas" is not used in said commercialization.

But our problem isn't the greeting "Happy Holidays", it's our attitude about it. We AUTOMATICALLY assume that every use of the phrase is because someone was instructed to use it instead of "Merry Christmas", which in and of itself is a casting by us of a false judgement upon another.

First of all, not all commercialization of Christmas is wrong. It's not a sin to decorate a tree or buy a nativity set to put in the house or even in the yard. What's wrong is when people focus on the gifts instead of on Christ. I believe we can have both.

I have never automatically assumed that all retail workers are forced to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." I'm sure some people simply say it to include Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years, BUT there are many retailers who HAVE purposely done so. The American Family Association has kept track of this and has kept Christians informed as to which stores have purposely done this. These stores have admitted to their political correctness, we haven't had to assume anything so we could judge others. It's not our job to "judge" others, but it is our job to stand up for what we believe in instead of wimping out and letting the liberals walk all over us!

 

[Johnv]

First of all, not all commercialization of Christmas is wrong.

I concur. I don't think any commercialization of Christmas is wrong. What is wrong, though is for us to equate the presence of Christmas references in said commercialization as gospel-referencing. Strictly speaking, the number of times the word "Christmas" appears or is absent makes no difference whatsoever on whether or not the Gospel is present.

I have never automatically assumed that all retail workers are forced to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

You did. You presumed that your local retail fliers "removed" the word "Christmas, based solely on whether the word "holiday" appeared. That's sheer presumption.

American Family Association has kept track of this and has kept Christians informed as to which stores have purposely done this.

Then the AFA has too much time on its hands. Seeing as how the AFA claims that the Virginia Techand Columbine shootings occurred because of abortion and no prayer in schools, they're not exactly high on the integrity list.

It's not our job to "judge" others, but it is our job to stand up for what we believe...

When we get all bent out of shape over just because someone uses "Happy holidays", we're not standing up for our beliefs, we're making a mockery out of our own beliefs.

 

[abcgrad94]

You did. You presumed that your local retail fliers "removed" the word "Christmas, based solely on whether the word "holiday" appeared. That's sheer presumption.

So, when did Christmas trees suddenly become holiday trees? I was born in the 70's and NEVER heard of a holiday tree until a few years ago. Same thing with Christmas gifts, Christmas decorations, and Christmas break at school. Somewhere along the line, recently, these have been changed to holiday trees, holiday gifts, holiday decorations, and winter break. Why?

 

[Johnv]

So, when did Christmas trees suddenly become holiday trees?

If your faith is assaulted by what you call a tree of pagan origin, then the problem is with your faith, and not with the tree.

 

[abcgrad94]

If your faith is assaulted by what you call a tree of pagan origin, then the problem is with your faith, and not with the tree.

Can you answer my question? When did the change occur, and why?

 

[Johnv]

Can you answer my question? When did the change occur, and why?

I thought it was a rhetorical question on your on your part, since you've already decided the answer.