Messianic Kingdom

[J.D.]

Challenge to all dispies: Read the article linked below and see if you are still a dispensationalist after reading it.

http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-really-owns-holy-land.html

 

[Allan]

Challenge to all dispies: Read the article linked below and see if you are still a dispensationalist after reading it.

http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-really-owns-holy-land.html

JD. I honestly read it with an open mind.
However, being completely honest, it did nothing but sadden more when looking at his work. He dealt very poorly with the texts context because the context stripped away his points. His main problem is not allowing the verses to be taken in context but one has to come to them with presuppositions or be told to look at it this way in order to see the picture "I'm" painting for meaning. He never speaks of all times that God calls the land 'theirs' (Israels) and when He refers to them maintaining there because of His promise to them regarding the 'land' and so on and so forth.

Sorry, to me it is very poor exegesis and not something I would recomment for an argument to be read if a person was willing to actually read the scriptures in context.

 

[OldRegular]

Challenge to all dispies: Read the article linked below and see if you are still a dispensationalist after reading it.

http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-really-owns-holy-land.html

Good article. I have Reymond's Book on Theology.

I am still waiting for someone or anyone to show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

 

[Revmitchell]

Good article. I have Reymond's Book on Theology.

I am still waiting for someone or anyone to show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

No your not.

 

[J.D.]

He never speaks of all times that God calls the land 'theirs' (Israels)

And why should he? Does he deny that there was a promise of land? But Christ offers something "better" (see Hebrews, any chapter), a "heavenly" land. Did you catch that part of Reymond's writing? I think you read it too fast.

 

[Me4Him]

Amy

You are 100% correct. The Gospel of Matthew normally speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven while the remaining three Gospels speak of the Kingdom of God. A comparison of the parables in the four Gospels clearly shows that the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are identical. There is only one God and one Kingdom whether it is called the Kingdom of Heaven, the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of Jesus Christ [Colossians 1:13].

Do you believe the Mill Kingdom (MK) will be a "Spiritual kingdom of God", with in you, as it is now,

Or do you believe it will be a "Literal Kingdom of heaven" with the physical presents of Jesus.

God the father is a "SPIRIT", not subject to "Temptation", "Death", Jesus was a "PHYSICAL" earthly man, subject to both.


Very importance "differences" between Father /Son, which was necessary if Jesus was to fulfill his role, yet Jesus/God are "ONE".


The "context" in which I speak of either reveals which one I refer too, you can't nail a "Spirit" to a cross.

And the "Context" of what Jesus offer to Israel reveals the "Type" of Kingdom he was offering, Spiritual or Literal.

Israel rejected Jesus mainly because of the "Differences" they saw between a "Spirit God" and a "Physical God",

Much of the Church attempts to interpret scripture as if there are no differences between them,

But to understand the "Deep things" of scripture, you'll have to recognize the "Differences" in the "Spiritual and Literal", while at the same time recognizing they are "ONE" and the "SAME".

I refer to this as the "Trinity Principle", because it keeps everything "IN CONTEXT" with what is being "Referenced", the "Spiritual or literal",

And you'll find this principle used throughout the scripture.

 

[Frogman]

No dog in this pony show, at least not NOW

Hey Guys,

Here is a passage of scripture that has caught my attention and perhaps someone has already made this point, if so, please forgive me for butting in.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Note how the word not is in bold above, yet there is no notice taken of now. This word is in the last phrase:

"...but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Just a thought...:wavey:

bro. Dallas

 

[OldRegular]

No your not.

Are you accusing me of lying? Isn't that against Forum protocol?

 

[OldRegular]

Do you believe the Mill Kingdom (MK) will be a "Spiritual kingdom of God", with in you, as it is now,

Or do you believe it will be a "Literal Kingdom of heaven" with the physical presents of Jesus.

The so called millennium is the time between the ascension of Jesus Christ and His return in Power and Great Glory. At this time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead followed by the Great White Throne Judgment. There will be a New Heaven and New Earth and the Triune God will tabernacle with man.

Return in Power and Great Glory

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


General Resurrection and Judgment

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Great White Throne Judgment [ See also Matthew 25:31-46.]

Revelation 20:11-15
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


New Heaven and New Earth

Revelation 21:1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


God Will Tabernacle With Man

Revelation 21:2-4
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Now can someone, anyone, [even the one who called me a liar] show me one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

 

[Navymans]

Yes! But what kingdom was He preaching?:sleeping_2:

That is the ? isnt it? good response.

 

[Revmitchell]

Are you accusing me of lying? Isn't that against Forum protocol?

What I am saying is this entire thread is for the purpose of taunting those you disagree with. It began with an air of arrogance and continues to proceed that way. You are not looking for a discussion. You are looking to be right.

 

[OldRegular]

What I am saying is this entire thread is for the purpose of taunting those you disagree with. It began with an air of arrogance and continues to proceed that way. You are not looking for a discussion. You are looking to be right.

All I ask was for someone to provide a simple passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews. If you think that is arrogant that is your problem. Just provide an answer and there will be nothing further to discuss!

 

[Revmitchell]

Dispensationalists argue that Jesus Christ came to offer the earthly Messianic Kingdom, that His offer was rejected and that He instituted the parenthesis form of the Kingdom, the Church, instead. Can someone or anyone show one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews? Or am I just:BangHead: :BangHead:

This is not just asking for anything. It is an attack on an opposing view. You make good use of smilies to taunt with. Combined with your last question there is no doubt about your arrogance on this thread.

 

[OldRegular]

This is not just asking for anything. It is an attack on an opposing view. You make good use of smilies to taunt with. Combined with your last question there is no doubt about your arrogance on this thread.

it is still a free country and you can believe what you wish but you cannot answer my question.

Incidentally since you sent me a message indicating that some people thought smilies were taunting I very rarely use them.

 

[Ed Edwards]

What I am saying is this entire thread is for the purpose of taunting those you disagree with. It began with an air of arrogance and continues to proceed that way. You are not looking for a discussion. You are looking to be right.[/quote

Amen, Brother Revmitchell -- Preach it! :thumbs:

That is why I went over here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=54854&page=3

(see post #25) to logically show there are multiple items of this: "Kingdom of God".

That includes the Millennial Messianic Kingdom of God that Messiah Jesus promised to the Jews. You know, the Kingdom of God that some would dis God cause He did not put anything about His 'Kingdom of God' in one simple, easy to understand verse in the Bible that says exactly what he would like it to say and nothing more and nothing less. Sorry, We have to read the Bible the way is was received us. We are NOT in the specification business with God. I bet you God didn't even consult with you for the specifications of the Universe before God created the Universe nor had you there running the construction thereof -- I know I wasn't, and I'm a pretty good engineer person :saint:

BTW, I'm still working on that project over there ...

-Ed Edwards,
A legend in his own time/mind

 

[Ed Edwards]

it is still a free country and you can believe what you wish but you cannot answer my question.

Incidentally since you sent me a message indicating that some people thought smilies were taunting I very rarely use them.

I agree with you, Brother Elder OldRegular, on the first sentence.

I respectfully disagree with you, Brother Elder OldRegular, and with Brother Elder RevMitchell on the second. The similies only show that the saying is not gospel from Mt. Sinai, or was an attempt to be humorous (mine usually fail).

Group hug time :1_grouphug:

 

[Me4Him]

Hey Guys,

Here is a passage of scripture that has caught my attention and perhaps someone has already made this point, if so, please forgive me for butting in.



Note how the word not is in bold above, yet there is no notice taken of now. This word is in the last phrase:

"...but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Just a thought...:wavey:

bro. Dallas

And a good one, when Jesus does return what happen, "HE FIGHTS", along with "Michael", and what was the reason he said they would fight,

To make this world his "KINGDOM".

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,

And rather than Kingdom in us, it will be us in kingdom.

And that Kingdom is one that comes by "Observation".

Lu 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

This is what Jesus alluded to whe he said:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The Spiritual Kingdom requires Spiritual vision to see, the Literal Kingdom physical vision to see it.

We still retain the "SPIRIT" kingdom inside, but for discussion/explanation, I keep them separated.

 

[Me4Him]

The so called millennium is the time between the ascension of Jesus Christ and His return in Power and Great Glory. At this time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead followed by the Great White Throne Judgment. There will be a New Heaven and New Earth and the Triune God will tabernacle with man.


Now can someone, anyone, [even the one who called me a liar] show me one passage of Scripture where Jesus Christ definitively offered an earthly Messianic Kingdom to the Jews?

When Jesus returns, the angels cast all "TARES" into hell with the previous unsaved dead who live not until the "thousand years" (one day with God) are finished.

This "MK" is the "Seventh day of Rest" promised in Heb 4.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest (MK) to the people of God.

You can't change what the scripture say/mean, it doesn't matter how much you like/dislike what it says, you still have to accept it.

and that is the problem with most "interpretations", preconcieved doctrines learned from sources other that the scriptures and the "UNWILLINGNESS" of the person to change their "VIEWS/DOCTRINE" hinders the "SPIRIT" from teaching them the "TRUTH".

HUMBLE AS A CHILD goes the the "HEART" of the matter in learning the "TRUTH".

 

[Amy.G]

This "MK" is the "Seventh day of Rest" promised in Heb 4.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest (MK) to the people of God.

This verse does not even remotely imply that the "rest" is the MK. It is speaking of the rest that comes from faith in Christ. This book was written to the Jews and explains throughout that Jesus is their/our rest. We cease to "work" when we put our faith in Christ. It speaks repeatedly of faith vs. works for salvation.

You can't change what the scripture say/mean, it doesn't matter how much you like/dislike what it says, you still have to accept it.

How true. And you have done just what you say others shouldn't.

 

[OldRegular]

This verse does not even remotely imply that the "rest" is the MK. It is speaking of the rest that comes from faith in Christ. This book was written to the Jews and explains throughout that Jesus is their/our rest. We cease to "work" when we put our faith in Christ. It speaks repeatedly of faith vs. works for salvation.



How true. And you have done just what you say others shouldn't.

Thank you Amy! If Me4Him would read the entire chapter perhaps he could see the truth.