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Michael being Jesus

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HisWitness

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Fred's Wife said:
You certainly could have fooled me. What you are teaching is not a Baptist teaching. Nowhere is this false heretical teaching about Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ found in Scripture....unless you twist Scripture to make it "fit" (2 Peter 3:16).

What you are promoting here is an Arian doctrine, which denies the deity of Christ. I suppose you don't believe in the deity of Chirst or that God is triune?
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you still fail to deal with the issue at hand--whats the problem--because you have no answer for it or what ????

you neglect to answer what I keep asking over and over with all your posts ???
 
H

HisWitness

New Member
Fred's Wife said:
You certainly could have fooled me. What you are teaching is not a Baptist teaching. Nowhere is this false heretical teaching about Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ found in Scripture....unless you twist Scripture to make it "fit" (2 Peter 3:16).

What you are promoting here is an Arian doctrine, which denies the deity of Christ. I suppose you don't believe in the deity of Chirst or that God is triune?
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Charles Spurgeon even believed Michael was jesus in his writings.

what will you say that Spurgeon was a heretic and JW also ??
 
H

HisWitness

New Member
Pastor_Bob said:
The fact (or assumption) that two voices are heard does not constitute the false doctrine that Jesus and Michael are one in the same. There are far too many passages that clearly teach us exactly who Jesus is.

If you are going to take the passages you quote literally, then Michael shouts while the Lord Himself descends from heaven. The voice of Jesus is heard only by those that are "in the graves." Two different voices - two different sources.
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I understand what you are saying here brother..

But could the voice of the archangel also be heard of the dead also--even though it doesn't word it like John did--but is plainly at the resurrection ?
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
HisWitness said:
1st thess. 4-16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first


John 5-28

Marvel not at this:For the hour is coming' in the which all that are in the graves shall hear HIS voice.

John is dealing with the voice of the Son of God

Thess is dealing with the voice of the archangel

So how do you bring together these voices at the resurrection ??

was Jesus really Michael the archangel ???
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Do you believe Jesus is God and in His Deity?
 
Pastor_Bob

Pastor_Bob

Well-Known Member
HisWitness said:
But could the voice of the archangel also be heard of the dead also--even though it doesn't word it like John did--but is plainly at the resurrection ?
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Then you have an argument from silence. I try to never base doctrine on arguments of silence - i.e. "The Bible doesn't specifically say..." There are too many clear passages in support of the foundational doctrines of the Word of God to stray on an issue because of an isolated verse or two.
 
H

HisWitness

New Member
Pastor_Bob said:
Then you have an argument from silence. I try to never base doctrine on arguments of silence - i.e. "The Bible doesn't specifically say..." There are too many clear passages in support of the foundational doctrines of the Word of God to stray on an issue because of an isolated verse or two.
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ok I see what you are saying brother.

But Charles Spurgeon and Matthew Henry did well believe that Michael was jesus. and Both of these were Baptists :jesus::jesus:
 
H

HisWitness

New Member
HisWitness said:
ok I see what you are saying brother.

But Charles Spurgeon and Matthew Henry did well believe that Michael was jesus. and Both of these were Baptists :jesus::jesus:
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let me update this....................................

Spurgeon,henry,calvin,Gill,Edwards

these 5 preachers were Baptists and believed Michael was indeed jesus

so when you state this is not a Baptist doctrine---do you studies more careful next time :jesus::jesus::
 
P

preacher4truth

Active Member
HisWitness said:
let me update this....................................

Spurgeon,henry,calvin,Gill,Edwards

these 5 preachers were Baptists and believed Michael was indeed jesus

so when you state this is not a Baptist doctrine---do you studies more careful next time :jesus::jesus::
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Document each of these.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
HW
You are a full preterist.
You believe that Jesus has already come.
You believe that we presently live in a new heaven and a new earth.

Do you believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust?
Do you believe in a future coming of the Lord?
If Michael is Christ, is Christ deity, and conversely is Michael, an angel, deity?
Did Christ rise from the dead in a physical resurrection?
Did he return in a physical manner?
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
I find no evidence of Calvin making such a claim.

As to Gill, he did make the claim in his comment on Jude 9.

Spurgeon? Some issues he seemed to be straddling the fence. This was one of them. In one sermon he implies that they are the same, in another, not.

Edwards, I haven't researched yet.


But these men were commentators. They are not inspired authority. The fact that Hebrews 1 shows us that none of the angels have the position that Jesus has, and that all angels will worship Him, reveals that He cannot be Michael.

The term "archangel" simply means "chief angel." Michael was chief angel, but an angel nonetheless. And the Bible states that all the angels will worship Christ. Michael will be one of those angels worshiping Christ.
 
F

Fred's Wife

Member
"Baptist" doctrine will send one to hell. If "Baptist" doctrine isn't BIBLICAL doctrine, it's false and must be rejected. The "supposed" fact that the "men" you mentioned in you post taught that Michael the archangel was/is Jesus Christ is false, whether these "men" were Baptists or not, doesn't change the fact that it is a false doctrine. This teaching is "another" gospel and "another" jesus.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
H

HisWitness

New Member
Steadfast Fred said:
I find no evidence of Calvin making such a claim.

As to Gill, he did make the claim in his comment on Jude 9.

Spurgeon? Some issues he seemed to be straddling the fence. This was one of them. In one sermon he implies that they are the same, in another, not.

Edwards, I haven't researched yet.


But these men were commentators. They are not inspired authority. The fact that Hebrews 1 shows us that none of the angels have the position that Jesus has, and that all angels will worship Him, reveals that He cannot be Michael.

The term "archangel" simply means "chief angel." Michael was chief angel, but an angel nonetheless. And the Bible states that all the angels will worship Christ. Michael will be one of those angels worshiping Christ.
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Spurgeon's comments directly from his sermons.............



“By faith we rise into the conquering place this day. In the heavenlies we triumph, as also in every place. We rejoice in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Michael of the angels, the Redeemer of men. For by Him we see Satan cast out and all the powers of evil hurled from their places of power and eminence.”

From “Our Lord’s Transcendent Greatness” (Dec. 2, 1866):


You remember how our Lord, who is the true Michael, the only great Archangel, said at the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel, “I beheld Satan as lightning falling from Heaven.”

From “The Angelic Life” (Nov. 22, 1868):


“We read that Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon was cast down. The fight is going on every day. Michael is the Lord Jesus, the only Archangel.”
 
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