Michael being Jesus

[Steadfast Fred]

I said it was a stupid question. I did not say you are stupid.

For the record, I see you as a Jacob... before he left Isaac's house... A supplanter.

It was a stupid question.

And please don't call me Brother either. You obviously don't preach the same Jesus I do.

By the way... you quoted my answer, and then ask me if I have a quick and easy answer?

Having eyes to see, ye see not.

 

[DHK]

answer what ?

Surely you admit that Christ created all things. I will post those verses again for your benefit. He is the Creator. All things, including angels were created by Him.
Now concerning angels, and Michael in particular, the Bible says:

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
--Michael and his angels are created beings, for the angels are created being. Michael is as much a created being as Lucifer is. Lucifer fell and Michael did not. Lucifer is the leader of "his angels" as well, now known as demons.

Here again are the Scriptures that are very clear on creation; that Christ created all things including ALL the angels, including Michael. Only God himself is eternal, immortal.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Do you agree with all of the above?
Why or why not?

 

[HisWitness]

I said it was a stupid question. I did not say you are stupid.

For the record, I see you as a Jacob... before he left Isaac's house... A supplanter.

It was a stupid question.

And please don't call me Brother either. You obviously don't preach the same Jesus I do.

By the way... you quoted my answer, and then ask me if I have a quick and easy answer?

Having eyes to see, ye see not.

questions come from people
if the question is stupid then the person who is asking is a stupid person

I forgive you though and hope God's blessing upon you :jesus::jesus:

 

[HisWitness]

I said it was a stupid question. I did not say you are stupid.

For the record, I see you as a Jacob... before he left Isaac's house... A supplanter.

It was a stupid question.

And please don't call me Brother either. You obviously don't preach the same Jesus I do.

By the way... you quoted my answer, and then ask me if I have a quick and easy answer?

Having eyes to see, ye see not.

I have not said Jesus was a created being at all---how is this a different jesus than you have friend ???

 

[Gorship]

HW, what information would you need to change your view that Jesus and Michael are separate.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I have not said Jesus was a created being at all---how is this a different jesus than you have friend ???

the Jesus I have is not Michael... The one you have is.

We can't both be serving the same Jesus.

And don't call me friend.

 

[HisWitness]

Do you agree with all of the above?
Why or why not?

concerning your Jude 1 text---here is one that refutes what you are trying to put forth from the Jude 1 text..

Zec 3-2

And the LORD said unto Satan,the LORD rebuke thee,O Satan,even THE LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

your Jude 1 text was listed because you are saying that if Michael was jesus he would have stated that I rebuke thee instead of saying the LORD.

well Zec 3 blows that theory out the door--The LORD said THE LORD rebuke thee--so if Michael was jesus--it would have been perfectly OK to say THE LORD rebuke Satan------if the Lord him self can say THE LORD rebuke thee then it would been ok for Michael to say it don't you think ?

 

[HisWitness]

the Jesus I have is not Michael... The one you have is.

We can't both be serving the same Jesus.

And don't call me friend.

StedFred all I have been doing is asking questions and contrasting the 2--Spurgeon said it and other Baptist preachers of the past said it.

Furthermore your attitude is starting to reflect that that is NOT Christlike--I urge you to get a hold of yourself

Jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies and those who despitefully used us and harmed us

I am NOT even your enemy and you are starting to hate me for no cause.

All I have been doing is debating the 2 stances and asking questions---which if you would read in an honest and sincere way---you might find some of them rather interesting :godisgood::godisgood:

 

[HisWitness]

HW, what information would you need to change your view that Jesus and Michael are separate.

Friend im sure you are sincere in your thoughts and for that I am greatful.

But im sure on the other hand that you would want to pull me from preterism also if you could do so--

it is the Lord who has showed me things from the preterist viewpoint---and I will not go back to the false traditions of mankind

But like I said--at least you are sincere in what you believe--most are not.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

StedFred all I have been doing is asking questions and contrasting the 2--Spurgeon said it and other Baptist preachers of the past said it.

Furthermore your attitude is starting to reflect that that is NOT Christlike--I urge you to get a hold of yourself

Jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies and those who despitefully used us and harmed us

I am NOT even your enemy and you are starting to hate me for no cause.

All I have been doing is debating the 2 stances and asking questions---which if you would read in an honest and sincere way---you might find some of them rather interesting :godisgood::godisgood:

who said I hate you? Those are your words, not mine. I have never met you, therefore how can I call you friend?

You are preaching another Jesus than the One I preach. Your Jesus has already returned. mine has not. How can we be Brothers.

 

[HisWitness]

who said I hate you? Those are your words, not mine. I have never met you, therefore how can I call you friend?

You are preaching another Jesus than the One I preach. Your Jesus has already returned. mine has not. How can we be Brothers.

we are bothers if either one us arent saved---we are both through adam in the flesh--therefore we are brothers in that sense

 

[Steadfast Fred]

we are bothers if either one us arent saved---we are both through adam in the flesh--therefore we are brothers in that sense

The Adam you preach was a serpent. The one I preach was man. We are not Brothers, no matter how much you claim we are. Yours is another gospel, another Jesus.

 

[HisWitness]

who said I hate you? Those are your words, not mine. I have never met you, therefore how can I call you friend?

You are preaching another Jesus than the One I preach. Your Jesus has already returned. mine has not. How can we be Brothers.

Just because we disagree on the timing of the return of Christ---you say we have different Jesus ????

your theology of that is very poor :jesus::jesus::jesus:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Just because we disagree on the timing of the return of Christ---you say we have different Jesus ????

your theology of that is very poor :jesus::jesus::jesus:

It must be another Jesus. Mine has not returned yet. Mine is not Michael.

 

[HisWitness]

The Adam you preach was a serpent. The one I preach was man. We are not Brothers, no matter how much you claim we are. Yours is another gospel, another Jesus.

Since you are right and nobody else is unless they agree with you with 100% agreement on all things---reckon we are done

But be aware of your judge mental state and self righteousness

It will always come back with much pain--Blessings friend :godisgood:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Since you are right and nobody else is unless they agree with you with 100% agreement on all things---reckon we are done

But be aware of your judge mental state and self righteousness

It will always come back with much pain--Blessings friend :godisgood:

i have not judged you wrongly. The Word of God judges you. I agree with the Word of God.

You need to heed your own advice.

 

[beameup]

I actually worked with and debated with a Jehovah Witness for many years.
One day he brought me the Watchtower issue that dealt with Michael being Jesus.
I think we all know where this topic is coming from.

 

[HisWitness]

I actually worked with and debated with a Jehovah Witness for many years.
One day he brought me the Watchtower issue that dealt with Michael being Jesus.
I think we all know where this topic is coming from.

im NOT a JW and I don't believe that jesus was a created being like they do

------------:jesus:-----------:godisgood:------------:jesus:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Don't let HW rope you in to his web of deceit, beammeup.

HW teaches Jesus is Michael.

Michael, as we know is an angel. All the angels worship Jesus according to Hebrews 1. Thus Jesus cannot be Michael.

But to hold to the inane teaching that He is, one would have no other choice but to dismiss Jesus' deity and present Him as a created being.

HW may say Jesus was not created, but don't hold any weight to that statement coming from HW any more than HW's claim to be Baptist.

His is not Baptist doctrine. Nor is it Bible doctrine.

 

[DHK]

concerning your Jude 1 text---here is one that refutes what you are trying to put forth from the Jude 1 text..

Zec 3-2

And the LORD said unto Satan,the LORD rebuke thee,O Satan,even THE LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

your Jude 1 text was listed because you are saying that if Michael was jesus he would have stated that I rebuke thee instead of saying the LORD.

well Zec 3 blows that theory out the door--The LORD said THE LORD rebuke thee--so if Michael was jesus--it would have been perfectly OK to say THE LORD rebuke Satan------if the Lord him self can say THE LORD rebuke thee then it would been ok for Michael to say it don't you think ?

No, what do the two have to do with one another.
The relevance of the text in Jude is simply to show that Michael is an angel, and along with all other scriptures he is a created being. If he is not a created being the Bible contradicts itself, and Christ himself is not God for then he would be a created being! Is that your belief?