• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Michael being Jesus

Status
Not open for further replies.

Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Verse 11 identifies the being as "the angel of God."

That is enough to show the reader that he was not God, but rather God's angel... God's messenger.

When he said "I am God," he was delivering a message that God had given him.
 

HisWitness

New Member
Verse 11 identifies the being as "the angel of God."

That is enough to show the reader that he was not God, but rather God's angel... God's messenger.

When he said "I am God," he was delivering a message that God had given him.

The Lord said unto my Lord---does the Lord have a Lord above him ??

your reasoning is still not correct according to the scriptures.

Angel means messenger---God was the messenger in those texts

The Angel of the Lord said I AM GOD :love2::love2:
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Three showed up to Abram's camp site and settled in for a conversation.

Genesis 18:
18 Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, 3 and said, “My Lord, ..."

Now why is it that Abraham saw three but only bowed down to and spoke to a singular?

Looking further in the chapter we see:


16 Then the men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. 17 The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do,
Do you notice the use of the word "Lord" again?

And just so you can see that it is The Lord look at this part.



22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the Lord.





See the two walked off, BUT Abraham and The Lord stayed back.






23 Abraham came near and said, “Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”



See how Abraham appeals to the Lord as the "judge of all the earth?"








26 So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account.” 27 And Abraham replied, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord, although I am but dust and ashes. 28 Suppose the fifty righteous are lacking five, will You destroy the whole city because of five?” And He said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” 29 He spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose forty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it on account of the forty.” 30 Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak; suppose thirty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” 31 And he said, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord; suppose twenty are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the twenty.” 32 Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” 33 As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the Lord departed, and Abraham returned to his place.
Two went on to Lot's house (see the next chapter), but the Lord departed.

What is important is to notice that Christ is manifested here WITH angels but only He talks to Abraham. BUT, the angels are not part of the conversation, the conversation always takes place between Abraham and Christ.

Christ is not an angel, never was an angel. He is The Word of God made flesh. God is Spirit, but the Scriptures state, Christ took upon Himself the form of a man, and being found in the fashion of a man....

Angels do converse with even modern day believers (entertain angels unaware).

However, WE have better than angels in which we can converse with. The Lord Jesus Christ.



Though far more powerful than humankind, NO Angel died for me, and no angel can ever pay the ransom for my soul. That belongs to Christ, and He alone is to be praised.
 
1st thess. 4-16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first


John 5-28

Marvel not at this:For the hour is coming' in the which all that are in the graves shall hear HIS voice.

John is dealing with the voice of the Son of God

Thess is dealing with the voice of the archangel
This is what you're basing your premise upon? Ohhhhhh K ...
 

HisWitness

New Member
Three showed up to Abram's camp site and settled in for a conversation.

Genesis 18:
18 Now the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, 3 and said, “My Lord, ..."

Now why is it that Abraham saw three but only bowed down to and spoke to a singular?

Looking further in the chapter we see:


16 Then the men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. 17 The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do,
Do you notice the use of the word "Lord" again?

And just so you can see that it is The Lord look at this part.



22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the Lord.





See the two walked off, BUT Abraham and The Lord stayed back.






23 Abraham came near and said, “Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”



See how Abraham appeals to the Lord as the "judge of all the earth?"








26 So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account.” 27 And Abraham replied, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord, although I am but dust and ashes. 28 Suppose the fifty righteous are lacking five, will You destroy the whole city because of five?” And He said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” 29 He spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose forty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it on account of the forty.” 30 Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak; suppose thirty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” 31 And he said, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord; suppose twenty are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the twenty.” 32 Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” 33 As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the Lord departed, and Abraham returned to his place.
Two went on to Lot's house (see the next chapter), but the Lord departed.

What is important is to notice that Christ is manifested here WITH angels but only He talks to Abraham. BUT, the angels are not part of the conversation, the conversation always takes place between Abraham and Christ.

Christ is not an angel, never was an angel. He is The Word of God made flesh. God is Spirit, but the Scriptures state, Christ took upon Himself the form of a man, and being found in the fashion of a man....

Angels do converse with even modern day believers (entertain angels unaware).

However, WE have better than angels in which we can converse with. The Lord Jesus Christ.



Though far more powerful than humankind, NO Angel died for me, and no angel can ever pay the ransom for my soul. That belongs to Christ, and He alone is to be praised.

whats your point here--one of those men was the Lord---yes
the other 2 men did converse with Abraham--but not much

3 men was 2 angels and the Lord---yes

this post has nothing to do with the post I made of the other scriptures of the Angel of the Lord saying that HE was GOD HIM SELF

your text the other 2 angels said hardly nothing but a few things to Abraham--they in NO wise claimed that they were GOD.and it never referred to the other 2 as angels while they were with Abraham--they were men

Only the Lord God him self can say he is GOD--and in those texts I gave he was also called an Angel of the Lord--He was GOD

the Angel of the Lord plainly said I AM GOD in the texts I gave unto you
 

Gorship

Active Member
Bless you also BaptistJG :jesus::jesus::jesus:

The Lord Christ has accomplished that already friend---so no worries about me---how about you ???

HW, may i ask why you always antagonize in your response posts? These People here responding; while being concerned about Biblical authority also care about your soul. You can brush it off all you want but that's what is happening here in this thread. You can wrap your responses in all the Smilies you want, no one is being 'deceived' by it.

Could you please answer the question of if Michael was created.
also what bible translation do you use.
Do you believe in eternal conscience torment called hell
 

HisWitness

New Member
HW, may i ask why you always antagonize in your response posts? These People here responding; while being concerned about Biblical authority also care about your soul. You can brush it off all you want but that's what is happening here in this thread. You can wrap your responses in all the Smilies you want, no one is being 'deceived' by it.

Could you please answer the question of if Michael was created.
also what bible translation do you use.
Do you believe in eternal conscience torment called hell

I kinda worry about your soul also friend---just because you don't agree with some things I post--do you think everyone is lost that doesn't meet your standards ????
 

Gorship

Active Member
I kinda worry about your soul also friend---just because you don't agree with some things I post--do you think everyone is lost that doesn't meet your standards ????

This isnt about standards, this is about truth. I think you know that.

Care to answer my questions now please.
 

HisWitness

New Member
another thought for this topic--------------

scripture states Michael being one of the Chief Princes

The Hebrew word for(one) can also be (First)

So that would say---That Michael was the First/Foremost and Greatest Chief prince
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
okie dokie--you have the right to believe as you choose to do so friend :godisgood::godisgood:
I do so choose.
I will repeat what I believe:
The ONE who sits on the Throne, Christ, is the King of kings, Lord of lords, to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord to the glory of the Father. He is Lord over both Heaven and earth, the Supreme Power and Sovereign over all.
All authority in heaven and in earth has been given to Him.
To add to that: Unlike Michael, a created angel, Jesus is God, eternal, the second person of the triune Godhead, co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father and God the Spirit, these three being three persons in one Godhead. He was never created, was, is and always will be God. But Michael was created by Christ, for all things in heaven and in earth, all things, were created by Christ.

If you don't believe these things you are in deep theological trouble.
 

HisWitness

New Member
I do so choose.
I will repeat what I believe:
To add to that: Unlike Michael, a created angel, Jesus is God, eternal, the second person of the triune Godhead, co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father and God the Spirit, these three being three persons in one Godhead. He was never created, was, is and always will be God. But Michael was created by Christ, for all things in heaven and in earth, all things, were created by Christ.

If you don't believe these things you are in deep theological trouble.

Can I ask how you know that Michael is one of the created angels ???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top