Michael, the Chief Messenger = Jesus Christ?

[37818]

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First of all, cross references don’t mean anything more than another place to look while you study. There is no exhaustive list of cross references nor are cross references inspired in their written form.
The references from one place to another being organized by the Giver I acknowledge readily. But to say that any cross references made by people are undoubtedly related is an error.

I think I understand what you are talking about now.

I don’t see your argument bearing out.
Besides being inessential doctrine, Michael is not the Name given among men whereby we must be saved.
I find this sort of doctrine stretching to be confusing at best, toward the purpose to which Christians have been given.

Where in all these words do you or not make a regarding the archangel being preincarnate Christ?

 

[37818]

I did.
It is a stretch to say because the same phrase was used then they must be the same person.

But you have to deal with the differences. How do you explain those?

If both you and I say "Bless the Lord" does that make us the same person?

Nonsense argument.

 

[Silverhair]

Nonsense argument.

But you have not even made any argument to support your view.

And you have still not dealt with what I said in post @ 7 or for that matter what @Ascetic X said in post # 19.

The argument that the same phrase was used is rather thin.

 

[37818]

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What is the proof Michael the Archangel CANNOT be the preincarnate Christ?

 

[Ascetic X]

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What is the proof Michael the Archangel CANNOT be the preincarnate Christ?

You have been given many proofs. Christ is never referred to as an Angel.

If Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ, then there are 2 names by which we can be saved. One could confess Jesus as Lord or Michael as Lord. If these individuals are identical, they would be interchangeable.

We must reject this doctrine of Jehovahs Witnesses.

Acts 4:11,12

This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[JesusFan]

Michael, the Chief Messenger = Jesus Christ?


The fact that Matthew Henry believed this was true led me to consider this topic. It is well-known that some cults like the Jehovah’s Witnesses also teach this. Yet we shouldn’t prematurely be against a position just for that reason. We should let Scripture, and not let tradition or tenets of cultists have any weight in the matter. ...

Big difference is that JW see Jesus actually was Michael archangel before Incarnation, while those such as Henry, Calvin, and Gill saw Him as preincarnated Christ as still very God being called michael as in Commander of armies in heavenly realm

Both of them however were still wrong

 

[37818]

John 1:2-3, The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Ascetic X]

John 1:2-3, The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

How do these verses relate to the unbiblical claim that Michael is Jesus?

Quoting irrelevant verses with no explanation does not contribute to the discussion.

 

[37818]

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If Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ, then there are 2 names by which we can be saved.

False.

Acts 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

. . . that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, . . . .

 

[Ascetic X]

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False.

Acts 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour

Yes, it is false that Michael is Jesus, since then there would be 2 names by which we can be saved.

 

[37818]

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Yes, it is false that Michael is Jesus, since then there would be 2 names by which we can be saved.

Not by your false logic.

Because, Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

There is only one savior. And no other.

 

[Ascetic X]

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Not by your false logic.

Because, Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

There is only one savior. And no other.

By your logic, there are 2 names by which we can be saved, if Michael and Jesus are the same person.

Thank you for admitting then that Michael cannot be Jesus. Only one savior, who is Jesus, not Michael the archangel.

 

[Silverhair]

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What is the proof Michael the Archangel CANNOT be the preincarnate Christ?

Read your bible.

You are trying to prove that Christ was just an angel.

Michael is called the "archangel"

What you are trying to prove is heresy.

 

[Silverhair]

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Not by your false logic.

Because, Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

There is only one savior. And no other.

Are you denying the Triune God?

 

[Ben1445]

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Where in all these words do you or not make a regarding the archangel being preincarnate Christ?

1. There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved

 

[Ben1445]

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What is the proof Michael the Archangel CANNOT be the preincarnate Christ?

That Michael is not named Christ or ever claim to be Christ or God, or the Son of God.

 

[Ben1445]

John 1:2-3, The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So Michael created the worlds?
I don’t see that in there?

What are you trying to say?

 

[Ben1445]

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Not by your false logic.

Because, Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

There is only one savior. And no other.

Jesus is Lord.
Michael is not Lord.

Alright, I took the bait.

Expound.

Don’t just copy and paste Greek. Explain everything you are trying to say.