Militarily speaking

[HankD]

Permit me to clarify one of the questions by suggesting this picture.

Place yourself as dead and are now standing before The Christ. Would you pledge allegiance to a country (any country) on this earth?

Well, we are not dead, we are not in the kingdom of Heaven standing before the King of kings.

We are here on earth, subject to the earthly government we live under

Romans 13
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


HankD

 

[agedman]

Well, we are not dead, we are not in the kingdom of Heaven standing before the King of kings.

We are here on earth, subject to the earthly government we live under

Romans 13
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


HankD

Not the problem, Hank.

People pay taxes and dues as regulations oblige.

However, does the Congress pledge to the alien country?

When do believers, whose citizenship resides with the Father who adopted them, determine that the Father’s citizenship rights do not allow for pledging and serving any earth country, or release us from such.

20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
​

 

[Revmitchell]

Not the problem, Hank.

People pay taxes and dues as regulations oblige.

However, does the Congress pledge to the alien country?

When do believers, whose citizenship resides with the Father who adopted them, determine that the Father’s citizenship rights do not allow for pledging and serving any earth country, or release us from such.

20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
​

So you are not a citizen of the United States or any country?

 

[HankD]

Not the problem, Hank.

Paying taxes is putting one's stamp of approval on the government they live under.

Otherwise one can move. One is provided that freedom in America.
Love it or leave it (My opinion of course).

Being a veteran it is my loving duty to stand at attention and salute as I pledge my allegiance to the flag or at the singing of the National Anthem.

HankD

 

[agedman]

So you are not a citizen of the United States or any country?

Are you not a citizen of Heaven?

Currently, the US has no restriction on dual citizenship based on parentage.

Just to add a bit of humor:

This is a problem for all except Calvinistic thinkers.

The non-cal views generally have the person choosing rather than parent choice.

The Cals hold that the Heavenly Father made the purposed choice long before the conceCption.​

Paul, held dual citizenship, but the citizenship of which he clung cost him his life.

Hence the basis for the questions on “when” rather than on the “what” or “why.”

 

[Revmitchell]

Another question avoided.

 

[agedman]

Paying taxes is putting one's stamp of approval on the government they live under.

Otherwise one can move. One is provided that freedom in America.
Love it or leave it (My opinion of course).

Being a veteran it is my loving duty to stand at attention and salute as I pledge my allegiance to the flag or at the singing of the National Anthem.

HankD

Actually, paying taxes has little to do with approval, and everything to do with the law.

Being an American, you have every right.

However, the questions involve more than what and why something is done.

Rather, “when.”

1) When do believers determine that armed conflict in support of the country (any country) is worthy and righteous?

2) When do believers determine that imprisonment and death are preferred in comparison to service and submission to the country (any country)?

3) Specific to the U.S., when do the BB members determine that the country is not one in which to honor with pledge and service?

 

[Van]

Another question avoided.

I believe you are on to something. Beware of those who change the subject, tell you what they do not believe, or disparage others.
I answered all three questions from my understanding of scripture, but the responses have been "a one, a two, and a three from their playlist.

 

[agedman]

Another question avoided.

Comprehension problems usually occur in the very young and very old.

Would you not agree?

But, more to the point:

Believers (as did the Apostle Paul) in the US enjoy dual citizenship.

As already noted, eventually Paul was forced to chose one citizenship over another. Doing so had certain repercussions. “For me to live is Christ, to die is gain.”

The first two questions of the “when” address that concerned problem of believers of ANY country.

The third question was specific (by extrapolation from the first two answers) to the US.

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe you are on to something. Beware of those who change the subject, tell you what they do not believe, or disparage others.
I answered all three questions from my understanding of scripture, but the responses have been "a one, a two, and a three from their playlist.

Yep there is a vast difference in responding to a post and actually answering the question. Your list there is seen quite frequently on this board and is straight out of the James White debate tactics book. The book is entitled "Win at all costs!"

 

[Van]

Being a veteran it is my loving duty to stand at attention and salute as I pledge my allegiance to the flag or at the singing of the National Anthem.

HankD

And we all salute you, Sir.

 

[agedman]

I believe you are on to something. Beware of those who change the subject, tell you what they do not believe, or disparage others.
I answered all three questions from my understanding of scripture, but the responses have been "a one, a two, and a three from their playlist.

Sorry you consider yourself so disparaged.

• There are some who demand answers, but, when answer(s) is given, do not show the error of the answer or even why it is inappropriate. Rather, they merely continue to demand an answer.

• There are those who take from the original question and manipulate it into one that was never intended to be ask, and then think they have answered the original question. More often the person didn’t have an answer, so had to manipulate the question into a form that person could answer.

• There are those who actually comprehend the question and provide well considered answers and arguments. They are able to compare and contrast their response to others given and actually discussion is involved.

If you look back at the thread posts, you will have to agree that this agedman has:

1) attempted to keep the focus on the purpose of the thread by reposting the questions
2) attempted to keep the focus by using bold print and “quotation marks” to highlight the key word of the questions.
3) attempted to use bits of humor to conjole responses into focusing on the questions.
4) attempted by quoting responses and comparing/contrasting original questions to further focus on the issue(s) and encourage greater thoughtfulness.
5) attempted to bring serious discussions to this obviously divisive issue, so that responses move away from being merely reactionary.​

Van, are you are actually one of those that you warn the B.B. about by posting, “Beware of those who change the subject, tell you what they do not believe, or disparage others?”

 

[agedman]

Yep there is a vast difference in responding to a post and actually answering the question. Your list there is seen quite frequently on this board and is straight out of the James White debate tactics book. The book is entitled "Win at all costs!"

Is there actually something to win?

What is “won” if one’s response is that heard on the elementary playground?

What is “won” if thoughts and opinions are not considered and probed for strengths and weakness?

What is “won” if the first rule to answering a question is ignored?

What is “won” by asking questions based on half the truth?

In this thread, three “when” questions were ask.

Looking back over your own responses, which ones are winners?

There may be some.

Excellent if there are.

Wish there were more?

 

[Revmitchell]

Is there actually something to win?

No there is not and it is about time yall learned that.

 

[Revmitchell]

No there is not and it is about time yall learned that.

See this is how you answer a question directly.

 

[HankD]

Actually, paying taxes has little to do with approval, and everything to do with the law.

Disagree.

16% of the national budget (605 billion) is devoted to defense. IMO it is easy and hypocritical to have domicile here in America and then play armchair moralist while one has and enjoys the protection of the US armed Forces and military with THE biggest killing machine in the history of mankind.

HankD

 

[HankD]

And we all salute you, Sir.

Thank you and I salute all my fellow veterans.

HankD

 

[agedman]

No there is not and it is about time yall learned that.

Not being obtuse, but who is the “y’all” that you seem angered at?

 

[Van]

Sorry you consider yourself so disparaged.
[Snip]

Van, are you are actually one of those that you warn the B.B. about by posting, “Beware of those who change the subject, tell you what they do not believe, or disparage others?”

Note the change of subject - to disparaging me - rather than agreeing or disagreeing with my biblical answers

As an old geezer, I remember the enemy "brain washing" of our POW in Korea. They taught them (reeducation) that America was not a good country, was not worth fighting for, etc. Corporations (banks) were exploiting the masses, and look at all the evil, giving smallpox to the native peoples, putting blacks to work as slaves and mistreating them in every way imaginable.

America certainly has its faults, but we need to shine the light of day on our problems and not buy the fake news peddled by the governments of North Korea, China, and Russia. Lets make America great again.

Godly people serving godly governing authority to protect our siblings in Christ, from Communism, and Islam is a fight worth having!

1) When do we fight under governing authority? Answer (from post #30) Godly people serving godly governing authority to protect our siblings in Christ, Answer (from post #29) Also note that Acts 4:18-19 also indicates we are do what we believe is right in the eyes of God.

2) If the required action violates God's commands, we, acting as an individual should become a conscience objector. Note that some of these drove ambulances and rendered care on the battlefield.

3) Those that do not honor America are probably not Christians (but many may be tares). Some have bought into the scapegoating fictions of the Left, I can even honor the past service of John McCain, while acknowledging he seems to be undercutting our efforts to make a better America for all, including Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics.​

 

[agedman]

I’m not certain why or even when this thread turned into “love America or leave it” chest thumping.

I don’t hold any one person at fault, but do sense the need to respond.

Because service and duty is called into question if no more than by implication, it will remain enough that the readers know that family blood is on the hills of Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, the shores and hedgerows of Europe, the rice patties and jungles of Asia, as well as the wilds of the West. It is enough that family names are etched into Wall and markers. Duty and service has never been shirked nor been embarrassed by irresponsibility. Enough to know that not all who serve are privileged to share. Enough to know “armchair moralist” may just come with the authority of both price paid and duty met. Enough!

This thread was meant to go beyond waving the flag, and displaying medals. Nothing at all wrong with doing either and both.



The purpose of this thread was to explore when believers such as Paul, Polycarp, Perpetua of the earliest church, Huss and Tyndale of the middle years, and on to our modern times determine the citizenship of eternity of more value then any of earthly frame.

The “when” was predetermined by the five missionaries in the 50’s as they landed on that sandy beach in South America. They had already agreed before the journey.

The “when” should be predetermined in every believer’s heart, mind, and from the core of their living.