Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

[Craigbythesea]

Your Scriptural "support" lies mostly from the Old Testament which is totally inapplicable.

Old Testament Scriptures are NOT irrelevant to the study of salvation, and Apostle Paul expressly says so in the word of God:

1. Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2. And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[James_Newman]

Its funny, if you mix DHK with CBTS, you get millennial exclusion

 

[Debby in Philly]

Originally posted by James Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Debby in Philly:
Oh, I'm not worried. I'd like to hear their explanation. No one's actually come out and said WHERE and FOR HOW LONG.

It's hell and its 1000 years during the millennial reign. And we should be worried if were not living as Christ commanded us. If we aren't sinning, then we need not worry. </font>[/QUOTE]So if I sin one time after I got saved, then I'll go to hell for 1,000 years along with everyone else in the same situation, and then we'll get out and go to heaven for eternity? Then no one will be in the millenial kingdom but Jesus all by himself, since I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else, saved or not.

Sounds like purgatory. Sounds like a good reason not to trust Christ until your deathbed, so you don't have time to sin. Ha! But you'd have one unkind thought I bet, and then ZAP - you lose. Wow, repent and come to Christ now, because He loves you and died for you, and only spend 1,000 years in hell.

Baloney! My Jesus wiped my slate clean! Hallelujah! He is my Righteousness! His grace is sufficient.

 

[Craigbythesea]

The Roman Catholic tradition that all "good" people go to Heaven and all "bad" people go to Hell for all eternity is not Biblical and far too simplistic.

Lacy,

There is no watermelon in this post! There is nothing in it but a gross misrepresentation of the facts. (You better be careful, or you are going to spend 1,000 years in the “outer darkness,” hell, Disneyland, or some place besides the Millaneous Kingdom.)

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Its funny, if you mix DHK with CBTS, you get millennial exclusion

 

[James_Newman]

Debby, I think we all sounded like that the first time we heard it, but if you allow us to reason with the scriptures, I think all your objections can be answered.

So if I sin one time after I got saved, then I'll go to hell for 1,000 years along with everyone else in the same situation, and then we'll get out and go to heaven for eternity? Then no one will be in the millenial kingdom but Jesus all by himself, since I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else, saved or not.

Hebrews 10
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Paul seems to agree with your assessment here in Hebrews. But we are not to just take one portion of scripture and run with it to its logical extreme...

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

1John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We are living in the time of God's mercy, and at any time we (as Christians) can come before the throne of grace and repent of our sins and ask Him to forgive us, and He will. But that doesn't mean we should walk in sin and expect we will be able to repent later on, and I would advise against it.

We are also told that we may expect some mercy at the judgment seat, if we show mercy to others. We can't say how much mercy, or even that we deserve mercy at all, God will be our judge.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Lacy,

Matt. 25:30, Mark 9:47, Matt. 5:22 How long? 1000 years (The duration of the kingdom.)

All of these do not saying, 'a thousand years'.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
[QB] Lacy,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Matt. 25:30, Mark 9:47, Matt. 5:22 How long? 1000 years (The duration of the kingdom.)

All of these do not saying, 'a thousand years'.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]No but they say KINGDOM!!! 2 Peter and Revelation say the kingdom lasts 1000 years! Compare scripture with scripture.

None of these verses say eternity either.

lacy

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I do not agree with Catholic's teaching.

But, in John 5:27-29 - Christ said: "And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for THE HOUR is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth, they(followers) that have DONE GOOD UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they(rebel people) that have DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION."

It tells us, when Christ shall come again, all people over the world, both followers & unfollowers shall hear Christ's voice, they shall be resurrection from the graves, they(followers) who done good, shall have eternal life, other group- they(unfollowers) who done evil, shall suffer everlasting punishment. Same with Matt. 25:46. Christ tells us, any person who obey Christ's commandments, and follow him, doing just life and keep the faith, shall have eternal life. Or, any perosn who do not follow Christ, and do evil things, without have repentance, shall enter into everlasting punishment - lake of fire.

Very simple and plain.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

2 Peter 3:8 does not take 'a thousand years' into literally. Apostle Peter tells us, in the Lord's sight, one day is AS a thousand years, as a thousand years is as ONE day. That mean, we shall be with the Lord for forever, no limited time, also, Peter's point of verse 8 speak of the last days scoffers asked: 'where is the Lord's promise of his coming?'. They often hear the gospel saying, Christ is coming again, they were expecting Christ might come anytime in their lifetime, but Lord does not come in their lifetime, they all were already died in the past centuries. Also, they might saying, "For many years, often, I hear Christians saying, Jesus is coming again, but Christ is not yet come for many years, this is a old, old story, it will never be happen. Same with people in the Noah's day, they hear the warning from Noah, that the flood is coming. They might had saying, 'For over a hundred years, often, I hear rumour, there will be flood over the world, but it never happen.'. I am sure, people who watched Noah builted a huge wood boat on the dry land, they think Noah was a nut.

But, Apostle Peter warns us, in 2 Peter 3:10 tells us, Christ shall come LIKE AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT. Same as what happened to people in Noah's day, people were not expect of flood came and took them away so suddenly. So, it shall be same as at Christ's coming, the angels will take all unbelievers away suddenly without any expect - Matt. 24:38-41.

In our sight, a thousand years seem tooooo long time for us, but in the Lord's sight, a thousand years is tooooo short time for him like as ONE day.

Understand?

In other word, Apostle Peter could have saying two thousand years as two days if he wants to. But, not necessary to. Peter explains to us more clear showing us, how quick is Lord's coming shall be.

Revelation chapter 20 does not take into literally, it tells us, we reign with Christ for a thousand years show it is a figurative meaning, that we are reigning with Christ for a long time. Church have been reigning with Christ for nearly 2,000 years since Pentacost day to today.

Again, nowhere in the Bible saying, kingdom is so called, 'a thousand years of kingdom'. Kingdom speaks of eternality things according to Daniel 7:14,18, & 27.

Next Sunday or Tuesday, I will discuss on 'a thousand years' more deeper with verses.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Craigbythesea]

2 Peter and Revelation say the kingdom lasts 1000 years!

Lacy,

If you don’t stop fibbing on this message board, I am going to have to tell on you!


2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Peter says that the kingdom is “everlasting.” John says that the kingdom is already present.

I hope that you enjoy your 1,000 year stay in Disneyland!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
What would be the purpose of a thousand-year kingdom on earth? (2 Peter 3)

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 19:14-15 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

What is the purpose of a thousand year reign with Christ? It is all part of the grand plan of Christ. Who are you to question God? Will you question His plan of salvation also, and the way that he carried it out?
DHK

 

[DeafPosttrib]

R.J.,

You saying, Matt. 24:13 speaks to the Jews of Israel.

Does Christ actual saying it?

I find a good refer verse of Matt. 24:13: it says, "For we are made PARTAKERS of Christ, IF we HOLD the beginning of our confidence STEDFAST unto the END." - Hebrews 3:14

'Partakers' in Greek word means, partner, companion, a follower worker.

Obivously, Matt. 24:13 & Heb. 3:14 speak apply to us as followers either Jew or Gentile which is in Christ.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Salinas]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 2 Peter and Revelation say the kingdom lasts 1000 years!

Lacy,

If you don’t stop fibbing on this message board, I am going to have to tell on you!

</font>[/QUOTE]2 Pt. 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. a thousand years

 

[Craigbythesea]

According to Rev. 1:9, the kingdom was in effect two thousand or more years ago.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If the kingdom is the millennial reign of Christ, and John was right, the millennium ENDED at least one thousand years ago!

• How many votes do we have for Apostle John?
• How many votes do we have James Newman?
• How many votes do we have that the “kingdom” can NOT be a reference to the millennial reign of Christ and that the James Newman doctrine is nothing but a bag garbage?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Craig,

No Millenial exclusionist I know taught (or teaches) that the literal 1000 year reign of Christ is the only application of the term "The Kingdom". However it is easily proven that it is the primary application of the term.

On a related note, salvation in all eternity (The new birth) is not the only application for the term "Salvation" in the Bible.

All of these terms must be "rightly divided" and the context must determine the definitions and applications of the terms.

For an excellent examination of the dualism of these and many terms, I suggest you read "The Dualism of Eternal Life" by S S Craig.

It is available for free here:

http://www.inthebeginning.org/schoettle/booksonline/craig/eternallife.htm

lacy

 

[Craigbythesea]

For an excellent examination of the dualism of these and many terms, I suggest you read "The Dualism of Eternal Life" by S S Craig.

S.S. Craig (This is NOT me) writes,

It is the purpose of this chapter to state, illustrate, enforce, and apply the truth of the "Dualism of Eternal Life" as I find it in the word of God, especially in the New Testament.

By the above heading I mean to convey the thought, the truth, that the phrase "Eternal Life" is used in a dual, or twofold sense, in the Scriptures. In the Former it designates the free gift of God to the soul that believes on Jesus Christ as the only Saviour from sin. In the second sense it means, no longer the free gift, but the prize of which Paul speaks in Phil. 3:7-14. This prize is the gracious privilege granted to believers who like Joshua and Caleb, like John and Paul, wholly follow the Lord, of sharing in the glory of the first resurrection and the unspeakable blessedness of Christ's Messianic Theocratic-Millennial Kingdom in the age to come. Matt. 19:27-30.

The gift of Eternal Life contains potentially the prize; but that potentiality may never be developed in the present period of the believer's probation; and if such be the case he will miss the Kingdom and its glory in the coming age.

Whether the writer of these three paragraphs was a competent Bible scholar or a lunatic on an acid trip, judge for yourself!

 

[Craigbythesea]

No Millenial exclusionist I know taught (or teaches) that the literal 1000 year reign of Christ is the only application of the term "The Kingdom". However it is easily proven that it is the primary application of the term.

Easily proven?

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> For an excellent examination of the dualism of these and many terms, I suggest you read "The Dualism of Eternal Life" by S S Craig.

S.S. Craig (This is NOT me) writes,

It is the purpose of this chapter to state, illustrate, enforce, and apply the truth of the "Dualism of Eternal Life" as I find it in the word of God, especially in the New Testament.

By the above heading I mean to convey the thought, the truth, that the phrase "Eternal Life" is used in a dual, or twofold sense, in the Scriptures. In the Former it designates the free gift of God to the soul that believes on Jesus Christ as the only Saviour from sin. In the second sense it means, no longer the free gift, but the prize of which Paul speaks in Phil. 3:7-14. This prize is the gracious privilege granted to believers who like Joshua and Caleb, like John and Paul, wholly follow the Lord, of sharing in the glory of the first resurrection and the unspeakable blessedness of Christ's Messianic Theocratic-Millennial Kingdom in the age to come. Matt. 19:27-30.

The gift of Eternal Life contains potentially the prize; but that potentiality may never be developed in the present period of the believer's probation; and if such be the case he will miss the Kingdom and its glory in the coming age.

Whether the writer of these three paragraphs was a competent Bible scholar or a lunatic on an acid trip, judge for yourself!

</font>[/QUOTE]Whats wrong with it? I don't see any giant spiders in there...

 

[simnesan]

Lacy,

This brother is sounding off

The Key's to the Kingdom of Heaven can be found on this Island.

Please click here: http://webpages.charter.net/ennisisland/ennisisland/