Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

[DeaconLew]

Genesis 49:26
The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

IF everlasting here is used in an absolute sense, then there are hills and mountains that extend beyond the bounds of the earth through out space and on and on.
Maybe everlasting can be used in a limited manner (ain't english great)!

EVERL`ASTING, a. [ever and lasting.] Lasting or enduring for ever; eternal; existing or continuing without end; immortal.

The everlasting God, or Jehovah. Gen.21.
Everlasting fire; everlasting punishment. Matt.18.25.

1. Perpetual; continuing indefinitely, or during the present state of things.

I will give thee, and thy seed after thee, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession. Gen.17.
The everlasting hills or mountains. Genesis. Habakkuk.

2. In popular usage, endless; continual; unintermitted; as, the family is disturbed with everlasting disputes.

Eternal can be used in a limited sense as well.

ETER'NAL, a. [L. oeternus, composed of oevum and ternus, oeviternus, Varro. The origin of the last component part of the word is not obvious. It occurs in diuturnus, and seems to denote continuance.]
4. Perpetual; ceaseless; continued without intermission.
And fires eternal in thy temple shine.

-DeaconLew

 

[DeaconLew]

The stone cut out of the mountain cut without hands became an everlasting kingdom. How long does it last?

Rev 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

What is all this talk about 1000 years. What, pray tell, is he referring to?

-DeaconLew

 

[Salinas]

Apostle Paul sounding off as an exclusionist.

1Cor.9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

2Tim.2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Lacy,

Joey Faust teaches, a Christian shall suffering the second death is a temporary. Suppose, his teaching is correct. Then, that means a Christian shall be cast into the lake of fire??? - Rev. 20:14 is a temporary?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Lacy,

Joey Faust teaches, a Christian shall suffering the second death is a temporary. Suppose, his teaching is correct. Then, that means a Christian shall be cast into the lake of fire??? - Rev. 20:14 is a temporary?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

I am not qualified to clarify Joey's teaching on "being hurt of the second death". I do know that he does not teach that a Christian can go to the LOF. He maintains that being "hurt of the second death" (Rev2:11) is not the same as being cast into the LOF.

He believes that the examining "fire" of God at the JSOC (Which comes out of God's mouth) is the same fire that later ignites the LOF.


A sentence to Hell is temporary. Matt 5:20-26 A sentence to the LOF is permanent. Rev 20:10

lacy

 

[DeafPosttrib]

The context of Matt. 5:20-26 does not saying anything about temporary. It warns us, if we refuse to forgive them who sin against us. same with Father will not forgive us. Obivously, 21-22 telling us, we shall be in the danger of hell, if we kill any person, and refuse forgive them who sin against us. Verse 26 does not mean that we shall be out of it, till after we pay the debt.

Catholics teaching, that we have to pay person's debt, to get person out of purgatory.

The context of Matt. 5:22-26 talk about forgive one another, if we don't forgive each other, then Christ shall not forgive us, our sins will be remain in us all the way till death, and will remain unforgiven for forever.

Christ commands us, that we ought to forgive each other, the same Christ shall forgive us our sins.

Revelation chapter 2 and 3 tell us lot of conditional warnings.

#1. Rev. 2:4-5 warn us, if we left from the first love, and if not repent of our sins, He shall removed us out of his place- means we shall be cast away.

#2. Rev. 2:10-11 tell us, if we faithful till our death, then shall receive the crown of life, and will not suffering the second death. OR, if we do not faithful, not endure, and fail to overcome, will suffer the second death - lake of fire. It is very clear and plain.

#3. Rev. 2:14-16 tell us, if we hold false doctrines, and compromising with the world, and not repent of our sins, He shall come upon us quickly - 'thief in the night' will destroy us.

#4. Rev. 3:2-3 tell us, we must always ready all the times till our death or Lord comes, or if we do not watch and ready, He shall come upon us as thief in the night. For the purpose of thief, to grab a person, and cast into everlasting fire - Matt. 24:40-41; Luke 17:34-37; 1 Thess. 5:2-9; 2 Thess. 1:7-9.

#5. Rev. 3:4-6 tell us, we should be pure and holy, walk with Christ, and overcome, Christ shall not removed our name ouf of the book of life. OR... if we do not being be pure, holy, and fail to overcome, Christ might removed our name from the book of life. In Exodus 32:33- God told Moses, anyone who sinned against Him, will removed person's name out of the book of life.

#6. Rev. 3:10-12 tell us, it promises us, if we keep His word, and endure with temptations all the way to the end, He shall keep us from the trials like as face dangers such as persecutions (same with John 17:15); and having overcome, no one shall take our crown. OR, if we do not keep His word, and will face troubles, and failed to endure, will take our crown away, and failed to overcome, shall not inherit in our Father's house.

#7. Rev. 3:15-19 tell us, Christ knows our works, but, many of us are lukewarm, Christ hates lukewarm. Christ shall spew person out of his mouth. Remember, we are the temple of God, we are the part of Christ's body as church. We dwell in him. If we are lukewarm, He shall spew us out of his mouth, it shows the picture that we can be removed from the body of Christ.

#8. Rev. 3:20-22 tell us, Christ expects us, to have fellowship and relationship with Him, and having overcome, He shall make us to sit with hiim in heaven. OR, if we do not have fellowship with Him, and failed to overcome, He shall deny us, - 2 Timothy 2:12.

There are so much teaching on conditional warnings in the Bible.

'Second death' is NOT a temporary, it is an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire - Rev. 20:14.

In fact, many Christians know what 'second death' means. There is no strange meaning to them, they understand it is speak of everlasting death in the lake of fire according to Rev. 20:14.

I do not accept of Faust's teaching - 'hurt of second death' is a only temporary. There is no support find anywhere in the Bible according what Faust teaching.

'Second death' is so very clear speak of everlasting punishment IS the lake of fire - Rev. 20:14.

The lake of fire is NOT a temporary, it is obivously speak of eternality punishment place.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[av1611jim]

A few questions for the nay-sayers.

1.a. Are you faithful to Christ?
b. If so then what are you so heated up about?


2.a.Do you think that our Lord and Savior would require obedience with no threat of retribution?
b. If not, then what in Scripture is that retribution?

3.a.What other motivation besides fear of God does Scripture give for obedience?
b. Love? All well and good. And I agree. But what parent demands love and obedience without consequences for failure? "If ye being evil..." Clearly Jesus is giving us a principle that God is much more consistent than earthly fathers. So I ask. What is the retribution for failure? Not salvation here. Continued stubborn failure after salvation.

In His service;
Jim

 

[av1611jim]

No answers yet fellows?

"Things that make you go ...hmmm!"

In His service;
Jim

 

[michelle]

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And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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The emphasis should be placed appropriately on "this" as Jesus Christ is speaking of the gospel of the kingdom, not that of the gospel of Grace. You again, are confusing Israel, with the church. Very dangerous to do this, as is evident in your belief in a very false doctrine - christians can go to hell.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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#1. Rev. 2:4-5 warn us, if we left from the first love, and if not repent of our sins, He shall removed us out of his place- means we shall be cast away.
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You said this:

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There are so much teaching on conditional warnings in the Bible.

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Salvation is not conditional. If one is saved, his works will be forthcoming out of FAITH, and will not be found wanting as Jesus Christ gives us the power to overcome. There is not any conditions placed upon our FAITH. We are saved by grace through FAITH, not of works, lest anyone should boast.


If we do not love Jesus Christ first, then we are not truly saved and do not have FAITH, as with FAITH WORKS FOLLOW. This is what this means. If you are not saved, you will be cast away. Christ does not cast away those He has bought. Those HE has bought love him first. Those who do not repent and obey him, do not love him, and therefore were never saved to begin with. These are those, who will be cast out, as they are not covered with the Lambs blood. This is not talking about those who believe and must suffer in HELL as punishment. If we love, we obey. It is this simple.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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2.a.Do you think that our Lord and Savior would require obedience with no threat of retribution?
b. If not, then what in Scripture is that retribution?
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This is unscriptural for a truly saved person to experience as Jesus Christ has given us the peace that surpasseth ALL UNDERSTANDING and the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit. It is not possible for a believer to fear torments in Hellfire. This is unscriptural and not that of a truly saved person. We are assured in our salvation of all that the Lord has promised and that He will do it. WE had better be sure that we are truly saved, if we are have any of these thoughts.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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3.a.What other motivation besides fear of God does Scripture give for obedience?
b. Love? All well and good. And I agree. But what parent demands love and obedience without consequences for failure? "If ye being evil..." Clearly Jesus is giving us a principle that God is much more consistent than earthly fathers. So I ask. What is the retribution for failure? Not salvation here. Continued stubborn failure after salvation.

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This is not true. If one has salvation, then they love the Lord, and this is through FAITH, and they will obey, if they truly love him. If they disobey, then they do not love him, and were never SAVED to begin with.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[AVL1984]

Michelle, your theology is not good here. There are many who are saved, yet don't obey every command. You've basically negated a persons salvation if they sin. This is far from being correct. Faith in and of itself doesn't necessarily guarantee obedience at every point. It doesn't even guarantee immediate obedience.

 

[av1611jim]

Simple question Michelle.

Have you ever sinned since being saved?

In His service;
Jim

 

[David M Walker]

"Bro. Faust, I ordered your book "The Rod Will God Spare It?" On page 439 you asked if anyone knew of anyone else who believed in millennial exclusion or temporary punishment of Christians. My pastor has preached this message for almost fifty years. His name is Bro. G.C. Kelly. He is, as I am, from the Eddy Baptist Church in Arab, Alabama. He teaches that all God's children will be in Heaven in eternity. But the children who die out of fellowship with God will in fact be separated from the children of God who die in faith. These who die out of fellowship with God will be punished during the thousand year reign with Christ. This period will be for, as he states so many times, "The time when all the hay, wood and stubble will be burned out of their lives. After which they will be pure and will be delivered over to God without spot or blemish for eternity." He uses the term "SEVENTH DAY" for this time of punishment. Bro. Kelly is eighty-four years old and still going strong. People in this part of the country will not accept this doctrine and therefore our church is small in number...Bro. Kelly is not a highly educated man in man's eyes but has a vast knowledge in the KJV bible. I bought the book for him. He gets discouraged with the preachers and teachers in the area because they do not hold to the truth as it is taught in God's book. I think this may really encourage him to keep on keeping on. July 14th of this year we will celebrate fifty years as an organized church. Please pray for our body and pray that God will show this truth to others in our area. I would to hear more from you if and when you have time. Your friend in Christ, V.M."

 

[Craigbythesea]

Bro. Kelly is not a highly educated man in man's eyes . . .

Duh! Like isn't that all too obvious

!

 

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Bro. Kelly is not a highly educated man in man's eyes . . .

Duh! Like isn't that all too obvious

!

</font>[/QUOTE]It is if you cut and paste.
But if you are honest with the entire sentence you find that he has vast knowledge of the Bible.

"Duh!"

In His service;
Jim

 

[David M Walker]

Ps 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

[michelle]

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Michelle, your theology is not good here. There are many who are saved, yet don't obey every command. You've basically negated a persons salvation if they sin. This is far from being correct. Faith in and of itself doesn't necessarily guarantee obedience at every point. It doesn't even guarantee immediate obedience.
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Boy, you just love to argue with me don't you Av? You seem to not really ever read my posts, only glance barely over them. Do you believe a christian can go to hell? This is what is being preached here on these threads. This is unbiblical, and a false doctrine. Now to what I have said, go back and actually READ what I have said. Every christian believer sins, as we are STILL IN THE FLESH, and we battle daily against this. This is what the Lord chastises, and brings conviction of. If we have picked up the CROSS and are FOLLOWING CHRIST, we will obey - some later than others. One great example of works or obediance that automatically follows true FAITH, is that of Abraham offerring Isaac up as a sacrifice. Abraham's FAITH and TRUST in God allowed him to obey the will of the Lord. Did Abraham live a perfectly sinless and obediant life? NO. No one but Jesus Christ has or could. This is the point. But if we are truly saved, we STRIVE TO PLEASE THE LORD, and rely upon him to help us overcome. To say that we must be punished in our spirit, for sin and bad works, is heresy. This denies the Power of the Cross of Christ and in the believers life.


I have never said that we are to base one's salvation on their sins. Never! If one shows not a change in their life, and an unrepentful heart, this IS GOOD INDICATION that one is not. But it is not for me to judge. It is for me to recognize, share the truth with them and if rejected to shun/avoid them. Many today, unfortunately are compromising this vital truth, and are tolerant rather than being obediant to what the Lord has said. WE are to shun them, and avoid them, so as to pull them out of the fire. When I was not yet saved, I thought I was. I didn't know I wasn't until I was actually saved. A friend of mine was a born again christian. We were discussing abortion and birth control. Obviously, my opinions were not biblically based, nor Christ like, as Christ was not dwelling in me. So, I thought as the rest of the world, that it was a choice. Needless to say, she did not agree, and was very upset with me, although I HAD NO IDEA. She just stopped talking with me, did not return my calls, etc. One day, two weeks later, I pleaded with her to tell me why she was AVOIDING me. She finally told me that God said I was a bad person, and that it was not good for her to be around me. I figured it out, that it had to do with our last conversation regarding abortion. Of course, at the time I did not fully understand it, and was in rebellion, but that pricked me in my heart, and I was very hurt, and had lost a friend. But the Lord used this in part to bring me ultimately to Him and salvation later on in my life.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[AVL1984]

michelle, You say that it is not for you to judge ones salvation, yet, in many of your posts you clearly indicate that because someone sins after salvation they not only aren't saved, but never followed the truth. You're so back and forth on what you've said, you can't even keep up on it. You're friend telling you you were a bad person was a good indicator of why many here don't accept the Independent Fundamental (Hyper variety) Baptists and reject their abusive attitudes. There were/are other ways to deal with people.
Michelle, you should know full well that I do not now, nor have I ever believed that a Christian can go to hell. I will never believe this, either. It is unscriptural doctrine, more of the Catholic variety on Purgatory.