Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Sister Michelle -- Preach it!
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Millenial Exclusionists sound off!
- Thread starter Lacy Evans
- Start date
Great post Michelle, in what you said and how you said it we are in total agreement. See, even if we don't agree in the versions section, we can and do agree in the matter of salvation. How it is received and how it is kept. Thank you for blessing my heart with your post.
Bro Tony
Bro Tony
Lacy Evans
New Member
The scripture says she made herself ready. The truth is we are not on auto-pilot. God commands Christians to "Make themselves ready", to be holy, and to obey the commands of Christ. If you are saved, you have the Holy Ghost dwelling within you. We are well able! because it is Christ within us. But we can chose not to walk in obedience to Christ. We can chose to be disobedient. (Otherwise why the commandnents, why the warnings, why terms like "endure", "wrestle", "fight", etc.)
It is rather that we are equipped to make ourselves ready and we are throughly furnished to walk in righteousness because of JESUS CHRIST who is righteous who we have had FAITH in.
What if a Christian doesn't Follow and obey? You have no answer except that possibly he wasn't saved. That is assurance based on works. I am sure of my salvation based on Christ's perfect work.
Yes and Amen!
My works, Christ's merit.
Mt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Yes and amen!
The saved have a choice. The scripture is clear. Obey get reward. Disobey get chastened. Your choice. No auto-pilot. Auto-pilot is absolutely unbiblical, cultish, heresy.
If they believe on the finished work of Christ they are saved. Period. Add nothing. John 3:16
Michelle, I love you, and praise God for your stand on the Word of God. However, I am very concerned because you are espousing the "lordship salvation" heresy. I am so afraid that young Christians reading your posts will start to look at their own righteousness to be sure if they are saved. Then they will begin to doubt their salvation because they don't automatically follow and obey the Lord. Please be careful.
Here is a link that has articles about the "lordship salvation" heresy.
http://virtualseminary.net/cgi-bin/page.cgi?lordshippage
I pray you will study.
lacy
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What if a Christian doesn't Follow and obey? You have no answer except that possibly he wasn't saved. That is assurance based on works. I am sure of my salvation based on Christ's perfect work.
--------------------------------------------------
When someone is saved, they KNOW IT, as the Holy Spirit testifies to our spirit this is so, and we FOLLOW and we are KEPT.
Romans 8
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25. But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32. He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I love you brother Lacy also, and this is why I have shared these things with you, and have boldly shown you the truth from the scriptures and told you that what you are believing is a false doctrine, and nothing other than the Roman Catholic belief of purgatory, only stated differently. I am at peace, the peace that surpasseth all understanding that Jesus Christ has given to me, and ALL who have put their FAITH and TRUST in Him ONLY. I am not trying to argue or debate you on this, but show you in truth and love. I have done my part, and there is not much more I can share with you, than I already have. Now I leave it to the Lord.
I will continue to keep you in my prayers, and may the Lord richly bless you.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
What if a Christian doesn't Follow and obey? You have no answer except that possibly he wasn't saved. That is assurance based on works. I am sure of my salvation based on Christ's perfect work.
--------------------------------------------------
When someone is saved, they KNOW IT, as the Holy Spirit testifies to our spirit this is so, and we FOLLOW and we are KEPT.
Romans 8
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25. But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32. He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I love you brother Lacy also, and this is why I have shared these things with you, and have boldly shown you the truth from the scriptures and told you that what you are believing is a false doctrine, and nothing other than the Roman Catholic belief of purgatory, only stated differently. I am at peace, the peace that surpasseth all understanding that Jesus Christ has given to me, and ALL who have put their FAITH and TRUST in Him ONLY. I am not trying to argue or debate you on this, but show you in truth and love. I have done my part, and there is not much more I can share with you, than I already have. Now I leave it to the Lord.
I will continue to keep you in my prayers, and may the Lord richly bless you.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Bartholomew
New Member
Hi brother Lacy!
And hi all you other "exclusion" brethren! I'd just like to "sound off" and say, "I beleive this too!" Sorry for not replying till now - haven't been able to. But have been reading some of these posts and I think you're all doing a stirling job.
I don't think the arguments of the "those warnings don't apply to us" crowd make any sense - the only other people whose posts do make sense I think are those who beleive in conditional security - Deafpost-trib and Craig-by-the-sea. But like I say, I don't agree with them - I think Phil 3 is one of the most definitive passages myself.
Please continue to post the truth of God's kingdom,
Your friend and brother,
Bartholomew
And hi all you other "exclusion" brethren! I'd just like to "sound off" and say, "I beleive this too!" Sorry for not replying till now - haven't been able to. But have been reading some of these posts and I think you're all doing a stirling job.
BTW, are there more than six of us now? If memory serves me correctly I started the first topic on this subject here at BB, though not many replied to it. Good to see this doctrine has finally been shown so that many here have seen it, and that you guys have ably defended it. I'll try and chime in every now and then, but it doesn't look like you guys need me.
Please continue to post the truth of God's kingdom,
Your friend and brother,
Bartholomew
Bartholomew
New Member
I'd just like to make three points:
1. Why does Dr. Bob keep calling us "the O'Harite sect"??? I've never even heard of O'Hare. But Govett, Lang, Panton, Neigbour, Faust; THESE I've read and found to teach millenial exclusion.
2. Please note that this subject is much bigger than "Chrsitians can go to hell". I've just read a book by G.H. Lang called "Firstborn sons: their rights and risks", which was all about the risk of exclusion from the millennium for a believer, and yet he doesn't address (in that work) the subject of where the believer goes. I happen to agree with Lacy et al that believers are in danger of going to the fires of hell (Mark 9 - John was saved), but the issue is bigger than this. Do those who disagree do so only because of the place of exclusion, or because of exclusion itself?
3. It seems that all those who are defending this doctrine here on BB are KJVO. I've seen a few posts where people have dismissed them for this reason. Let me just say that this doctrine does not stand or fall with the KJV. Yes, there are some differences in the renderings of certain passages, but I know it can be proved even from the NIV. G.H. Lang, in the book I just mentioned, writes that the AV is hopeless for studying prophecy, and that the Revised Version should be used instead. In fact, he argued that the KJV often mucked up the sense, and that the RV readings agreed more closely with the kingdom exclusion doctrine. He was using Westcott-Hort-type Greek. Lacy, etc. are using the KJV. But both came to the same conclusion. Robert Govett also agreed with Lang here.
OK - bye for now
1. Why does Dr. Bob keep calling us "the O'Harite sect"??? I've never even heard of O'Hare.
But Govett, Lang, Panton, Neigbour, Faust; THESE I've read and found to teach millenial exclusion.2. Please note that this subject is much bigger than "Chrsitians can go to hell". I've just read a book by G.H. Lang called "Firstborn sons: their rights and risks", which was all about the risk of exclusion from the millennium for a believer, and yet he doesn't address (in that work) the subject of where the believer goes. I happen to agree with Lacy et al that believers are in danger of going to the fires of hell (Mark 9 - John was saved), but the issue is bigger than this. Do those who disagree do so only because of the place of exclusion, or because of exclusion itself?
3. It seems that all those who are defending this doctrine here on BB are KJVO. I've seen a few posts where people have dismissed them for this reason. Let me just say that this doctrine does not stand or fall with the KJV. Yes, there are some differences in the renderings of certain passages, but I know it can be proved even from the NIV. G.H. Lang, in the book I just mentioned, writes that the AV is hopeless for studying prophecy, and that the Revised Version should be used instead. In fact, he argued that the KJV often mucked up the sense, and that the RV readings agreed more closely with the kingdom exclusion doctrine. He was using Westcott-Hort-type Greek. Lacy, etc. are using the KJV. But both came to the same conclusion. Robert Govett also agreed with Lang here.
OK - bye for now
Lacy Evans
New Member
Brother Bartholomew!!!
I can't tell you how good it is to see you back here on the BB. PM me!
lacy
I can't tell you how good it is to see you back here on the BB. PM me!
lacy
Lacy Evans
New Member
Dr Bob thinks Joey Faust made up the doctrine. He calls us the "Mansfield Sect" (Joey's church is in Mansfield) when he runs out of objective arguments.Originally posted by Bartholomew:
1. Why does Dr. Bob keep calling us "the O'Harite sect"??? I've never even heard of O'Hare.
I think it has a nice ring to it. I might start calling myself a "Mansfieldite". I am working in the fields harvesting the souls of men for the Lord. Seeking the Kingdom first!
It wouldn't be the first time a nasty, hateful, subjective nickname became a badge of honor.
Lacy
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I think it has a nice ring to it. I might start calling myself a "Mansfieldite". I am working in the fields harvesting the souls of men for the Lord. Seeking the Kingdom first!
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If you are saved, you are already IN THE KINGDOM and working IN IT.
Luke 17
19. And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lacy, as a born again believer you are ALREADY working in the KINGDOM for your Lord. Like I said, the Millenial reign is meant for Israel, NOT THE CHURCH. This cannot even be a reward Lacy, as the saved ALWAYS REMAIN WITH THE LORD, from the time that they are saved and FOREVER. So at the rapture and in heaven in our glorified bodies, to which is our hope, we CANNOT and WILL NOT be separated from our Lord. We go where Jesus Christ goes, and we know for sure, He does not go to HELL.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I think it has a nice ring to it. I might start calling myself a "Mansfieldite". I am working in the fields harvesting the souls of men for the Lord. Seeking the Kingdom first!
--------------------------------------------------
If you are saved, you are already IN THE KINGDOM and working IN IT.
Luke 17
19. And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lacy, as a born again believer you are ALREADY working in the KINGDOM for your Lord. Like I said, the Millenial reign is meant for Israel, NOT THE CHURCH. This cannot even be a reward Lacy, as the saved ALWAYS REMAIN WITH THE LORD, from the time that they are saved and FOREVER. So at the rapture and in heaven in our glorified bodies, to which is our hope, we CANNOT and WILL NOT be separated from our Lord. We go where Jesus Christ goes, and we know for sure, He does not go to HELL.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
JohnBaskette
New Member
Bro.Lacy;
I believe! Sorry I've not replied sooner. Been busy, after the thread I started, HELL IS NOT THE LOF. After debating W/emotional people HERE'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS (@LEAST PART) How can anyone read the Bible and not question it's Authority NOT KNOWING THE KINGDOM TRUTH?
Have they not read?
In Christ; John Baskette
I believe! Sorry I've not replied sooner. Been busy, after the thread I started, HELL IS NOT THE LOF. After debating W/emotional people HERE'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS (@LEAST PART) How can anyone read the Bible and not question it's Authority NOT KNOWING THE KINGDOM TRUTH?
Have they not read?
In Christ; John Baskette
Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]
Lacy Evans
New Member
Rightly divide the term "Kingdom" it has more that one application.
Is this the "kingdom within me"? Are Jacob and Isaac sitting down in me?
Re 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Everyone who is part of the "first ressurrection" is included.
1Co 6:9,10; 1Co 15:50 ;Ga 5:21; Eph 5:5; 1Th 2:12; 2Th 1:5; 2Ti 4:1; 2Ti 4:18; Heb 12:28
All these verses are addressed to the saved. I challenge you to study them.
2 Peter 1:5-11 - What is the reward for adding to your faith?
2Ti 2:12 - What is the reward for suffering?
Amen. Even in Chastisement we are not separated. I showed you the verse that proves that Hell is not out of the presence of God. (Psalms 139:7-8) Have you got a verse that contradicts it?
Christ goes to reign. we go there IF we suffer. (2Ti 2:12)
Lacy
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2 Peter 1:5-11 - What is the reward for adding to your faith?
2Ti 2:12 - What is the reward for suffering?
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We do not add to our faith. Jesus Christ does. He is the founder and finisher of our faith. We are already in the spiritual kingdom of God Lacy. It is not a reward, it is what we become part of upon our salvation. We are only awaiting our glorified bodies, and the judgement seat of Christ to which we are then clothed with His righteousness, not our own. The rewards we recieve in Heaven are not our own, but those to which Christ EMPOWERED us through the Holy Spirit. You are adding to the gospel of grace Lacy.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
2 Peter 1:5-11 - What is the reward for adding to your faith?
2Ti 2:12 - What is the reward for suffering?
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We do not add to our faith. Jesus Christ does. He is the founder and finisher of our faith. We are already in the spiritual kingdom of God Lacy. It is not a reward, it is what we become part of upon our salvation. We are only awaiting our glorified bodies, and the judgement seat of Christ to which we are then clothed with His righteousness, not our own. The rewards we recieve in Heaven are not our own, but those to which Christ EMPOWERED us through the Holy Spirit. You are adding to the gospel of grace Lacy.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Rightly divide the term "Kingdom" it has more that one application.
--------------------------------------------------
Exactly, to which YOU refuse to acknowledge and understand the difference between that of Israel, and that of the church.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Rightly divide the term "Kingdom" it has more that one application.
--------------------------------------------------
Exactly, to which YOU refuse to acknowledge and understand the difference between that of Israel, and that of the church.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
--------------------------------------------------
Is this the "kingdom within me"? Are Jacob and Isaac sitting down in me?
--------------------------------------------------
Jesus own words said the kingdom of God is within you. Yes, spiritually they are in the kingdom of God, while they lived on earth, and are now in HEAVEN with the Lord, and as you go before the Lord in prayer to the throne of Grace, they are there also. They are there with Christ Jesus who dwells in you. We have all been baptized with the same Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God, to which is where they are now.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Is this the "kingdom within me"? Are Jacob and Isaac sitting down in me?
--------------------------------------------------
Jesus own words said the kingdom of God is within you. Yes, spiritually they are in the kingdom of God, while they lived on earth, and are now in HEAVEN with the Lord, and as you go before the Lord in prayer to the throne of Grace, they are there also. They are there with Christ Jesus who dwells in you. We have all been baptized with the same Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God, to which is where they are now.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
--------------------------------------------------
It might benefit you to rightly understand this verse. On the second death they shall have no power. What power is being referred to Lacy? What exactly is the second death? It is different than the first resurrection. The Church is the body of Christ and we are part of the firstfruits, that is the first resurrection, NOT the second death.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
--------------------------------------------------
It might benefit you to rightly understand this verse. On the second death they shall have no power. What power is being referred to Lacy? What exactly is the second death? It is different than the first resurrection. The Church is the body of Christ and we are part of the firstfruits, that is the first resurrection, NOT the second death.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Amen. Even in Chastisement we are not separated. I showed you the verse that proves that Hell is not out of the presence of God. (Psalms 139:7-8) Have you got a verse that contradicts it?
--------------------------------------------------
It is not wise to take one verse of scripture out of context, and out of overall scriptural truth and base a whole doctrine from it Lacy. This is what you are doing. I gave you abundant scriptures that show you what Hell is, and why and who go there.
What you need to provide, is evidence that the Lord chastises the saved person in the spirit along with that of the flesh. If we are saved, our spirit is cleansed by the blood of the Lamb through faith.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Amen. Even in Chastisement we are not separated. I showed you the verse that proves that Hell is not out of the presence of God. (Psalms 139:7-8) Have you got a verse that contradicts it?
--------------------------------------------------
It is not wise to take one verse of scripture out of context, and out of overall scriptural truth and base a whole doctrine from it Lacy. This is what you are doing. I gave you abundant scriptures that show you what Hell is, and why and who go there.
What you need to provide, is evidence that the Lord chastises the saved person in the spirit along with that of the flesh. If we are saved, our spirit is cleansed by the blood of the Lamb through faith.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
--------------------------------------------------
Christ goes to reign. we go there IF we suffer. (2Ti 2:12)
Lacy
--------------------------------------------------
Lacy, if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved.
Romans 8
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25. But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32. He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Christ goes to reign. we go there IF we suffer. (2Ti 2:12)
Lacy
--------------------------------------------------
Lacy, if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved.
Romans 8
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25. But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32. He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
Michelle, todays average Christian has no idea what suffering for the Lord is. I have a feeling, though, in the very near future, we may start to find out. Just because one is not suffering doesn't mean that they aren't saved in answer to your quote...
"if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved."
I know of many Christians who aren't suffering at present. I know of many who are, many whom you probably would never know were suffering unless the spoke up and said something. I know of many who have suffered in the past and are now doing quite well. Being saved doesn't mean that we have to suffer 24/7. I'm sure you are already aware of this, though. Suffering can be used as chastisement, or as a way to mold us to be what God wants us to be.
"if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved."
I know of many Christians who aren't suffering at present. I know of many who are, many whom you probably would never know were suffering unless the spoke up and said something. I know of many who have suffered in the past and are now doing quite well. Being saved doesn't mean that we have to suffer 24/7. I'm sure you are already aware of this, though. Suffering can be used as chastisement, or as a way to mold us to be what God wants us to be.
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Michelle, todays average Christian has no idea what suffering for the Lord is. I have a feeling, though, in the very near future, we may start to find out. Just because one is not suffering doesn't mean that they aren't saved in answer to your quote...
"if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved."
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I guess that depends upon what you consider suffering. Suffering doesn't only mean physical such as martyrdom and physical beatings. It covers a wide range of things that we suffer for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, todays average Christian has no idea what suffering for the Lord is. I have a feeling, though, in the very near future, we may start to find out. Just because one is not suffering doesn't mean that they aren't saved in answer to your quote...
"if we are not now presently suffering for our Lord, then we are not now saved and better get saved."
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I guess that depends upon what you consider suffering. Suffering doesn't only mean physical such as martyrdom and physical beatings. It covers a wide range of things that we suffer for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle