Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

[James_Newman]

I was shown, years ago. If you would open your eyes, you might see it too. But I think God is the one that has to open your eyes, Michelle. I pray that He does before its too late and you find out that the tribulation jew is you. The rapture is going to straighten out a lot of bad theology, I pray I'm not here to say I told you so.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I think it would be a safe assumption that I have studied the issue more and own more books and articles on the subject by Govett, Lang, Pember, Panton, Stanley, Hodges, Radmacher, Dillow, Craig, Seiss, and Faust, than any person debating it on the BB. My Govett collection alone takes up two shelves on my bookcases. I have kingdom books that have been out of print for 100 years.

I also have a large collection of books written by heretics, but I know the difference between false religions and the Christian Faith. And if you had studied the doctrine of millennial exclusion in a thorough and responsible manner, you would know for a fact that W. H. Griffith Thomas did not believe in nor teach that heresy, and you would not have included his name in the cesspool of the names of heretics.

Zane Hodges and Joseph Dillow do NOT believe or teach that any Christian will spend so much as a fraction of a nanosecond in hell, although I do agree that both of them are teachers of a false and damnable “gospel.”

As for Joseph Augustus Seiss, I am going to read his commentary on Revelation and see for myself how much you and Joey have mutilated his actual words.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Actually you solved that problem by proving the Thomas quote was correct and in context.

Dear Brother Lacy,

Please tell the truth. I posted both Joey Faust’s quotes and ellipses from W. H. Griffith Thomas and also the very words of Thomas in context for all to see for themselves. And unlike Joey Faust, I provided the page numbers from where the quotes were taken and revealed that this particular work by Thomas is a compendium of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, a highly relevant fact that Joey Faust conveniently failed to mention. Joey Faust either knowingly and willfully misrepresented what Thomas believes and wrote, or Joey is an illiterate fool that needs to learn how to read! That much is beyond dispute. You know Joey personally! You decide which of these two things is true about Joey Faust.

A fact for readers who have not read this entire thread: Joey Faust has only a high school education—he has taken no classes at all from any college, institute, or seminary, either on campus or by mail or via the Internet. And yet he would have you to believe that he has such an extensive knowledge of the New Testament that he has learned that 99.999% of all Bible scholars can not read well enough to understand even the basic doctrine of salvation even though to him it is as simple as 2 + 2 = 7. Do YOU believe this? If you do, may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Oh really? Please then, show us all. You have yet to do this, and never will, because it isn't there.

Amen! Amen! Amen!

 

[Craigbythesea]

I was shown, years ago. If you would open your eyes, you might see it too.

1. Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2. The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3. but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
4. The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
5. "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. (NASB, 1995)

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I did read another book - 'Beyond The Rapture!' by Gary T. Whipple. I brought it at the bible conference 4 years ago. But, I didn't read it till little over a year ago. I was shocked to read that book. His teaching is filled with his opinions and logicals. There so many things that I do not agree with his teaching.

After I read that book. I decided to order "The Rod" by Joey Faust. I received it in the mail. I did read that book. I was surprised, that book talk the same thing as what Gary T. Whipple teaching. Whipple wrote that book about 10 years earlier before Faust wrote. I bet, that Faust did read Whipple's book before he write his book.

I do not agree with both books.

I warning to my friends about that books, and that doctrine is spreading over baptist churches in America is a strange teachings. We must avoid from any strange teachings. Because of these are not find in the Bible. These teachings are filled of opinions, logicals, and also theory too.

Both Faust and Whipple believe Christians shall suffer 'second death' of Rev. 2:11, but for temporary. I do not agree with their teaching. Rev. 2:11 speaks so very clear with warning, if any person fail to overcome, will suffer everlasting punishment. Second death is an everlasting punishment in the Lake of fire according to Rev. 20:14.

Later, I will quote from Whipple's teaching in his book, what he saying, that I do not agree with him. Also, I will quote from Faust's too.

Both won't admit that they DO teaching on Christian's purgatory. Because they seem feel embrass that they are compromising with Roman Catholic's teaching on purgatory. Both are aware that the teaching of purgatory is a false doctrine, although, they still teaching that a Christian shall suffering in hell for a temproary, THAT is a OBIVOUSLY TEACHING purgatory!!

There is no purgatory find in the Bible. Jesus Christ never, never teaching us that a Christian shall suffer in hell for a "temporary". Christ teaches us, once a lazy servant ALREADY face Christ sits on the throne, to judge servant's work, He shall send a lazy servant cast into the everlasting punishment at ONCE, there is no promise for a lazy servant shall be released out of hell or outer darkness BEYOND the judgment day!! We know that. Even, Early Christians know too.

Teaching on Christian's purgatory is a dangerous. Why? Because of depend on security salvation, it so called, 'Once Saved Always Saved'(OSAS). No matter what, how often a Christian sinned once after believed in Jesus Christ, person's name already penned in the book of life forever and ever, that mean, they already have the ticket with them await for to get into heaven(comparing to attend Stadium for football game).

That is dangerous teaching. I don't accept that teaching.

No way, you can doing your own guesworks, opinions, logicals, theory, as what you interpreting verses. You have to accept allow scripture intepreing scripture, that is Hermenuetic rule.

I refuse doing my own guesswork to intepreting verses. I allow verse to interpreting verse. I understand and accept what the verses saying, I obey and follow them, no argue with them.

There is NOT a even ONE verse in the Bible telling us, a lazy servant shall be finally being released out of the hell/lake of fire beyond after a person shall be being once cast into it. You know that.

Of course, Rev. 20:11-15 telling us, hell shall be cast out, BUT, that does not mean hell is a temporary place for all unbelievers, disobedient people. Hell is a place is already reserved for all unbelievers and disobedient people AWAIT for the coming judgement day, THEN, all of them shall be cast into the lake of fire IS the final eternality state. Simple and plain.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:

A fact for readers who have not read this entire thread: Joey Faust has only a high school education—he has taken no classes at all from any college, institute, or seminary, either on campus or by mail or via the Internet. And yet he would have you to believe that he has such an extensive knowledge of the New Testament that he has learned that 99.999% of all Bible scholars can not read well enough to understand even the basic doctrine of salvation even though to him it is as simple as 2 + 2 = 7. Do YOU believe this? If you do, may God have mercy on your soul.

You forgot to post another fact, that you believe you must work for salvation

I'm not sure where in the bible it says you must have a degree from some bible college to understand scripture. Maybe you could show us, craig? There was a time that people were allowed to educate themselves with books, instead of having to go to an approved institution of higher brainwashing to have your head filled with the approved interpretation of scripture. Men of God relied upon the Holy Spirit to guide them in their studies. I thought attacking a mans education was beneath you, Craig, but I guess anything goes when you can't rebut doctrine with scripture.

Let us take a quick religion test.

1. Millenial exclusion is false, because:

a. All my favorite bible scholars are calvinists.
b. Joey Faust didn't go to seminary.
c. I believe I know greek.

2. Extensive knowledge of the new testament is gained by:

a. reading the inspired commentary.
b. an exhaustive Google search.
c. faith, not of works, but you will have works if you really know the new testament.

3. In order to determine the truth of a matter, one must:

a. diligently compare it to what one has already read in the inspired commentary.
b. post a poll on the Baptist Board.
c. 'Trust your feelings, Luke'

All in good fun, you know I love you Craig, but come on, is that really a good argument? I see you posting the writings of your 2 year old all the time, no one questions his education, the writings stand or fall on their own merits.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I was shown, years ago. If you would open your eyes, you might see it too.

1. Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2. The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3. but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
4. The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
5. "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. (NASB, 1995)

</font>[/QUOTE]

Numbers 22:31
Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I'm not sure where in the bible it says you must have a degree from some bible college to understand scripture. Maybe you could show us, craig? There was a time that people were allowed to educate themselves with books, instead of having to go to an approved institution of higher brainwashing to have your head filled with the approved interpretation of scripture. Men of God relied upon the Holy Spirit to guide them in their studies. I thought attacking a mans education was beneath you, Craig, but I guess anything goes when you can't rebut doctrine with scripture.

James,

I largely agree with you here. The very same doctrines that I believe today to be true are Biblical truths that I learned as a young Christian who had never even seen a commentary on the Bible, let alone read one. I prayed every day for God to teach me His truths and to protect me from error and my faith was in God and His word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

However, there are other people who believe that they have also learned the truth by reading the Bible, and their beliefs are very different from mine. Why is this? There are several possibilities.

• I prayed more than they did for God to teach me His truths
• I had more faith in God for my prayer to be answered
• God in His sovereignty chose to teach me and not others
• I was more receptive to the ministry of the Holy Spirit
• I did not read the Bible until I had already received a very fine secular education and had an excellent grasp the English language
• I had already completed many university courses in the interpretation of literature before I began reading the Bible
• I was blessed at birth with an above average intelligence and a very clear analytical mind that made it possible for me to quickly and accurately grasp concepts that others found very difficult of not impossible to grasp
• Factors came into play that I am not aware of

I know that my beliefs are the correct beliefs because during the many years subsequent to my being taught by the Holy Spirit as I read the Bible I have studied the Biblical languages and customs, Biblical hermeneutics, Biblical exegesis and exposition, and the history of Christian doctrine. In doing so I learned that the Holy Spirit has taught other men throughout the history of the Church the very same things that he has taught me, and I have also learned that the opposing doctrines, with very few exceptions, were either introduced into Christian thought by a particular man or woman at a particular time in history, or they evolved over a period of time. In the case of the very few exceptions, I have learned that regarding each of them the Church was divided from the beginning.

God is no respecter of persons, and He and His truths never change. There is no such thing as a new Biblical doctrine or interpretation—any doctrine or interpretation that is new is not from God or the Bible, but from some other source. Joey Faust went to great lengths to find his peculiar beliefs in the writings of those that came before him, going all the way back to the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. As I check his references and read the authors that he quotes, I find that they do not, for the most part, support his beliefs.

Had Joey Faust really received his interpretations through the ministry of the Holy Spirit as he read the Bible, he would have received the same interpretations that honest and sincere men have received throughout the history of Church as they prayed and asked God to teach them. But, instead, Joey Faust received new and novel interpretations that could not have come from either God or the Bible. Why did this happen? There are several possibilities.

• He did not pray as he should have for God to teach him His truths
• He did not have enough faith in God for his prayer to be answered
• God in His sovereignty chose not to teach him
• He was not receptive to the ministry of the Holy Spirit
• He began reading the Bible and continued reading it before he got a good education or a good grasp of the English language
• He did not study the interpretation of literature before he began reading the Bible
• He was not blessed at birth with an above average intelligence and a very clear analytical mind that made it possible for him to quickly and accurately grasp concepts that others found it easy to grasp
• Factors came into play that neither he nor I am not aware of

James,

I believe that you should very carefully, honestly, and prayerfully consider why it is that you have received new and novel interpretations rather than the same interpretations that honest and sincere men have received throughout the history of Church as they prayed and asked God to teach them.

I am being very straight forward with you because I have enjoyed and have been blessed by your ministry on this message board, and I have grown to love you as both a friend and a brother. If taken the wrong way, my words in this post will sound sinfully arrogant. I trust that you, however, will not take them that way—but as the honest and sincere words of a friend and a brother trying to come to a mutual understanding of some very important issues.

Thank you for enriching my life and helping me to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

CBTS

 

[Craigbythesea]

I see you posting the writings of your 2 year old all the time, no one questions his education, the writings stand or fall on their own merits.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen! A man does not have to have a list of degrees after his name to be right; he only has to be right. And if he is wrong, all the degrees in the world will not make him right. But as sweet and loveable as my grandson may be, that doesn’t make him right when he is wrong—but fortunately that only happens when he disagrees with me, which is not very often. After all, he is a VERY smart kid!

 

[Craigbythesea]

At 11:54 this evening I received an e-mail message from Joey Faust that was a reply to an e-mail that I sent him early in May, probably on 05/06/04. In my e-mail I asked him for the correct reference for one of his quotes in his book for which he gave a wrong reference. In the e-mail that I received this evening from Joey he provided the quote in context, but he did not provide the reference. I sent him another e-mail asking him for the correct reference. We shall see what happens.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Faust, Whipple, and others, who teaching that a unfaithful servant shall cast into the outer darkness, and will miss the kingdom of God, or millennial kingdom. How can they 'prove' to us of any verse saying that a unfaithful servant shall be cast in the hell and will miss millennial kingdom?

I do not see a single verse saying clear that a unfaithful servant shall be cast in the outer dakrness/hell/second death during supposed future 'a thousand years' in the Bible.

These teaching are obivously heresy to me.

The word of 'thousand' find many verses in the Bible. I suggest you to look in STRONG'S Concordance for 'thousand'.

Not always in these verses saying a literal exactly numbers of 'thousand', depend on what the grammar or sentence is talking about.

Many verses do telling us, the literal numbers of 'thousand'. But, also, many verses telling us of the symbolic use of the numbers 'thousand' in scripture.

There are so much verses telling us, these are symbolic numbers. Too much work for me to post on these. I suggest you to read at other discussion forum about 'thousand'. Please look at http://p072.ezboard.com/bendtimeforum then click, 'Millennial Discussion'. Then, go down to right bottom, to click page 6. Look for the topic - 'The Symbolic use of the Number 1,000 in Scripture'.

Paul Malcomson doing a excellent job to made a long post with so many verses on 'thousand'. I urge you to read his post. Also, please open your eyes and mind, willing to listen what the scriptures saying. Paul M. is an amill, same as I am an amill. But, Paul and I both disagree about salvation doctrine. Although, we are get along very well.

You really need a strong evidence of a verse telling us, that a unfaithful servant will suffer in the outer darkness/second death/hell DURING millennial kingdom, to prove it to us.

So, far I do not see a clearly verse in the Bible teaching us that a unfaithful servant shall suffer in hell/outer darkness/second death for only a temporary - 1,000 years. Thier teaching is very much heresy to me, sorry to saying that.

Also, 'Kingdom of God' never, never so called, 'millennial kingdom'. Bible does not teaching us that the kingdom of God/heaven is so called 'millennial kingdom'. It is speak of God's things, and heavenly things, and of course eternality too.

For example - John 3:3,7 tell us, we must be born again, OR..... we cannot have eternal life(kingdom of God). Christ does not saying to a pharisee, that he must be born again, or cannot see "millennial kingdom". Christ does not saying, 'a thousand years' in John 3:3, 7.

John 3:3,7 discuss about salvation, not discuss about supposed future millennial kingdom.

A Pharisee asked Christ, want to see the kingdom of God. Christ said to him, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU." - Luke 17:20-21. Christ does not discuss about a thousand years of kingdom. He discusses about God's spiritual is now with us as Christ brought it to earth as the gospel spread. When Christ begin to preaching, he said, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is AT HAND; repent ye, and believe the GOSPEL." - Mark 1:15. Christ does not saying millennial kingdom is about to arrived. He said, the kingdom of God is at hand, that means, the kingdom of God is arrive very soon. How does we know that the kingdom of God is already present within us today? Simple, when Christ crucified on the cross, and then risen from the death, then now the kingdom of God is arrived, because of the gospel.

When after Judas, the Iscariot left Lord's supper, then Christ said, "NOW is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him." - John 13:29-31. I understand of this passage speak of the kingdom of God is just arrived, as the new covenant(testament) is about to present to the disciples, but not just for the Jews only, also to the world speak of Calvary.

The kingdom of God IS the gospel, not so called, "millennial kingdom".

There is not a single verse find anywhere in the New Testament saying that kingdom of God/heaven is so called, 'millennial kingdom'.

I disagree with them, they saying that they are so called, 'millennial kingdom', these are heresy to me.

They teaching of Gal. 5:19-21 telling us, a person who do evil things cannot inherit the 'kingdom of God', they telling us, that mean, a person who doing evil things, cannot enter "millennial kingdom".

But, Apostle Paul never discuss on 'a thousand years' find anywhere in his 13 epistles.

No way, that you can 'prove' us that Gal. 5:19-21 telling us, a person cannot enter 'millennial kingdom', because Paul does not saying 'a thousand years'. That why, I disagree with their teaching.

I understand what Gal. 5:19-21 telling us, if any person doing evil things, cannot have eternal life, that means, they will go to everlasting punishment - lake of fire. Use our common sense understand what Apostle Paul actually talking about.

Teaching on millennial exclusion is so difficult and very flaw to people, also, it do caused them into divided, I consider.

Because, the teaching of millennial exclusion is a very flaw and weak have no support verse find from the Bible to prove it. These are heresy. I do not accept their teaching. I rather follow what the Bible actually saying it, than what men saying according to Colossians 2:8.

Most Christians and pastors can easy understand Matt. 7:21-23; Matt 13:40-42; Matt. 25:41; and etc. are very clear speak of send a person into everlasting punishment - fire. Even, a teenager Christian could understand them too.

I do not need any complex teaching from any men like Faust's about them. I easy understand what these are talking about, no need to adding in 'new teaching', or 'new revelation'.

Lacy, you do really having hard time with us, because, many of us do not agree with your beliefs include Faust, and others about millennial exclusion. These are very flaw and no foundation or sound doctrine base upon God's Word. I ask you, you have to accept what God's Word saying rather than what you listening to any commentators or teachers teaching. I might be wrong. But, I urge you to sticky with God's Word, what it saying instead what you listening to any person's teachig according to Colossians 2:8.

I think, you seem confusion what you are listening to any commentators, what they saying in their own intepreting the Bible. I am not saying that you better leave Joey Faust as your close friend. I am sure that Joey Faust is your good friend. I am sure Joey Faust is a truly brother in Christ, because I believe he really love the Lord, and serve the Lord. But, I am concerning of his teaching easily misleading people to believe errors.

I urge you to sticky with God's Word, what it actually saying than what you listening to men's.

I hope that someday, Joey Faust will opening his eyes and heart to see the truths from the Bible, and to follow it instead what he listening to any commentators.

I do not want to teaching to people in false doctrines and errors. I am fear of the Lord. Because He shall judge me. So, you too. I do not want you to teaching the errors, same as Faust does.


I urge you to STICKY on God's Word, and listen it!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Craig,

Last year, I did debate with Joey Faust by emails. I made strong points with verse to him. He refuses to discuss with me. So, I leave him alone.

I urge you please keep up discuss with him positively. I hope that he will opening his eyes and heart to see the truths from the Bible.

Maybe I would like to discuss with Faust again in the email with positives and good questions too. I am thinking of send a email to him soon this morning with some good questions. wait and se ewhat he would saying to me. I am sure he will ignore me again. I hope that he is opening his mind and listening to me, also, God's word. But, also, I must be a good listener to Faust too, that is a fair.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[michelle]

Deafposttrib,

I am glad to see you do not believe the heresy that a saved person will or can go to suffer punishment in Hell. However, you seem to IGNORE the nation of Israel, and God's future plans for her, disregarding all scriptures pertaining to her. Why is this?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by michelle:
Deafposttrib,

I am glad to see you do not believe the heresy that a saved person will or can go to suffer punishment in Hell. However, you seem to IGNORE the nation of Israel, and God's future plans for her, disregarding all scriptures pertaining to her. Why is this?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Yeah, he believes a Christain can lose his salvation and fry in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. But that is not heresy. It's funny who folks will buddy up to to escape the Father's warnings of chastening.

Lacy

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Yeah, he believes a Christain can lose his salvation and fry in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. But that is not heresy. It's funny who folks will buddy up to to escape the Father's warnings of chastening
--------------------------------------------------

NO Lacy. You are wrong. He does not believe in heresy, but the hard truth. What you fail to see and understand, is that there are and will continue to be, until the begginning of the millenial reign, tares among the wheat. This is why the Lord separates the goats from the sheep (meant for the nation of Israel, and the rest of the nations of the world and NOT THE CHURCH). However, those who are part of the bride of Christ, or the church, to which is a mystery, are ALL SAVED. God has the POWER and ABILITY, and PROMISE to be able to KEEP THEM, as the Lord has said, NNE CAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHERS HAND. This is the truth. You are confusing the unsaved with the saved, which is very unfortunate for you, and causes you to believe this heretical teaching. If one is not called up to the Lord at the rapture, they will be in HELL awaiting the GWT and resurrection to eternal damnation which is the Lake of fire. If one is at the rapture, they will ALWAYS REMAIN WITH THE LORD, are INDEED SAVED, and CANNOT, nor WILL EVER GO TO HELL or the Lake of fire.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Lacy Evans]

You obviously don't even know what DPT believes Michelle. Have you read his posts? He doesn't believe in Eternal Security, nor does Craig. It makes me wonder if you have read carefully enough to really know what I believe.

Lacy

 

[Craigbythesea]

Yeah, he believes a Christain can lose his salvation and fry in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. But that is not heresy. It's funny who folks will buddy up to to escape the Father's warnings of chastening.

Lacy

You know this is NOT true . The warnings in the Bible are something much more severe than warnings of chastening—they are warnings of eternal damnation—warnings that you and your sect have watered down to be a temporal chastening. There is not one scripture anywhere in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that makes any mention of any person being chastened temporarily for either 1,000 years or a fraction of a nanosecond anywhere at all after they die. This statement is 100% factual and you either know it to be so, or you have not even begun to study the false doctrines of Joey Faust.

Any false religion that is a blending together of the Jehovah Witness cult and the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church is more seriously in error than Mormonism. And that is precisely what we find in the false religion of Joey Faust—temporal punishment after death in an imaginary purgatory. Satan deceived himself and he is now damned to hell for eternity. I beseech you to recant your false doctrines before you share the same fate. And if you think that being in hell for eternity will be like vacationing on a sunny beach in the Virgin Islands, you are in for a very big and most unpleasant surprise!

And Lacy,

If you want to stop this nonsense and start discussing what the Bible says about chastening, hell, and eternal damnation, quit posting your trite nonsense and start posting Scripture, and we will see who is telling the truth

and who is defending a false religion .

 

[Lacy Evans]

Craig,

Does DPT believe a saved person can possibly lose his salvation or not? Do you believe a saved person can possibly lose his salvation or not?

Do you believe a person who is not saved will fry in the LOF for eternity?

What is "NOT true " about my statement? Do you believe in eternal security or not? Do I misunderstand you?

I showed earlier on the thread (And on the other "hell" thread) all the scriptural arguments. The problem is, when I start arguing scriptures, Craig goes emotional and subjective. "Trite nonsense?" That is certainly rich.

Temporal punishment after death in an imaginary purgatory

I don't believe in purgatory. I believe in Hell. (Rev 20:15; Luke 12:5,46.)

Satan deceived himself and he is now damned to hell for eternity.

This is not scriptural. Satan is not now in hell. (Job2:1) He will only spend 1000 years there and then be cast into the Lake of fire. (Rev 20:1-2,10)

And if you think that being in hell for eternity will be like vacationing on a sunny beach in the Virgin Islands, you are in for a very big and most unpleasant surprise!

What in the world are you talking about? I have never even hinted at such a damnable thing. Hell is torment.(Luke 16:25)

Any false religion that is a blending together of the Jehovah Witness cult and the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church is more seriously in error than Mormonism.

Talk about subjective. BOOM BOOM BOOM! You managed to work in three cults who believe nothing similar to what I believe. (You forgot to throw in Peter Ruckman and Gail Ripplinger. They don't believe anything similar to Millenial Exclusion either but I'm sure their names would strike a chord with those who decide their doctrine based on emotional subjectiveism, which seems to be your MO.)

Now you take the high road and want to debate scripture? I have answered you at every turn with scripture. I suppose if you want, we can start over.

Lacy


Lacy

 

[James_Newman]

were going to have to, page 20 is coming up.