Millenium questions...

[robycop3]

Satan is a figurative dragon ( he's one of God's fallen angels, isn't he, and the enemy of God's people? ) bound for a literal 1,000 years.
I would think that the context would tell you that, as well as other statements that the Lord has shown about Lucifer / Satan through His word.

You don't have to "buy" anything, Willis.

Simply believe the words for what they say and chain them together using what is developed and defined from other Scriptures.
For example, "rod of iron" is not a literal rod.
It's His firm rule of holy law expressed to those enemies that He will be putting under His feet...
From His father David's throne at Jerusalem during the "millennium" when God's people will be ruling and reigning with Him.

I don't get that from "dispensationalism", I get it strictly from reading His word.


Good evening to you, my friend.

Remember, SG is a PRETERIST. And also remember, he CANNOT show us from history where the eschatological events have already occurred. And "dispy" is a pret's fave thing to call someone who doesn't believe their garbage.

Preterism is as false as "word/faith, regenerational baptism, annihilationsim, modalism, the KJVO myth, mariolatry", & many other false doctrines.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes.

you can invent things but that does not make it true.
Romans 1 teaches men are without excuse.it is not saving knowledge.

 

[SovereignGrace]

you can invent things but that does not make it true.
Romans 1 teaches men are without excuse.it is not saving knowledge.

Plus, it says that the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, and this revealing is via the gospel, not some sort of “worship me the best way you know how” heresy.

 

[robycop3]

you can invent things but that does not make it true.
Romans 1 teaches men are without excuse.it is not saving knowledge.

But it says WHY men are without excuse.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you have Jesus sitting on David's throne and earthly Jerusalem holding a rod of iron in his hands how does someone in the middle of the rain forest with no radio TV or anything else no hes king and ruling and Jerusalem how does that happen

God cannot make all know Jesus is Lord?

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree, roby.
I see that the man of sin that Daniel, Paul and the Lord Jesus spoke about, will not appear until right here:

" Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-8).

According to the above, first there will come a "falling away" ( as described in 1 Timothy 4:1-3 )...
Many of those who profess Christ will fall away from the faith once delivered unto the saints ( Jude 1:3 ), and will turn to false teachings and teachers.
They will profess to know Him, but in their actions deny knowing Him.
We are in it right now, and it's getting worse and worse.

Then the man of sin will be revealed.

That did not happen in 70 A.D., as General Titus did not exalt himself above all that is called God, nor did he sit in the temple and claim to be God.
Instead, he burned and demolished both Jerusalem and the second temple,
and there was no period of plagues, famine, earthquakes or other judgments that followed that series of events.

All that happened was the destruction of Jerusalem.

It also did not happen during the earlier Maccabean Revolt against Antiochus Epiphanes from 167 to 160 B.C., either;
As the Lord's statements regarding the abomination of desolation were spoken of in 33 A.D. ( Gregorian calendar ) in the future tense in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21...
It had not happened yet.

The man of sin that the Lord spoke of, is yet to be revealed,
and he will sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God before the entire world.



Finally, according to the last part of the passage above, that same man of sin will be destroyed with the brightness of His coming...
He will be ruling the world, or at least most of it, when the Lord Jesus comes again.

Neither was he slain , as Jesus did not have the second coming then!

 

[Yeshua1]

So a literal dragon is bound for a literal 1,000 years, but the other times 1,000 are used they are figurative? Not buying that.

Satan will be bound until after second coming event!

 

[Yeshua1]

Plus, it says that the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, and this revealing is via the gospel, not some sort of “worship me the best way you know how” heresy.

Thought you are postmil?

 

[Dave G]

And you should have stopped your post right there.

I'm sorry to have offended you, Willis.
I relate what I see in the Scriptures and tell people honestly about it.

For the record, I do not see the Bible teaching "a-millennialism" and even after 43+ years ( the last 15 of it or so in careful study of the Scriptures ), I never have.
Rather, when it comes to end-times events, I understand them like this:

I am "Pre-Millennial" , "Post-Tribulational rapture", with a 3.5 year tribulation ( not 7 years ) followed by His people spending a literal 1,000 year reign with the Lord bodily at Jerusalem.
If you don't see it that way, then I suppose that we'll have to agree to disagree.


I wish you well, as always, and may God bless you in many ways.

 

[Dave G]

Remember, SG is a PRETERIST. And also remember, he CANNOT show us from history where the eschatological events have already occurred. And "dispy" is a pret's fave thing to call someone who doesn't believe their garbage.

Preterism is as false as "word/faith, regenerational baptism, annihilationsim, modalism, the KJVO myth, mariolatry", & many other false doctrines.

Enough, roby, please stop with the labeling and personal attacks;
It's "conduct unbecoming" us as Christians and it's my belief that this forum enjoys far too much of allowing such things.

Additionally, ( and I say this to everyone here )...
No believer has any right to malign anyone, given the magnitude of what the Lord has done for us.

Would that we would all keep this in mind when we discuss what we see in His word, myself being first and foremost.

 

[robycop3]

I'm sorry to have offended you, Willis.
I relate what I see in the Scriptures and tell people honestly about it.

For the record, I do not see the Bible teaching "a-millennialism" and even after 43+ years ( the last 15 of it or so in careful study of the Scriptures ), I never have.
Rather, when it comes to end-times events, I understand them like this:

I am "Pre-Millennial" , "Post-Tribulational rapture", with a 3.5 year tribulation ( not 7 years ) followed by His people spending a literal 1,000 year reign with the Lord bodily at Jerusalem.
If you don't see it that way, then I suppose that we'll have to agree to disagree.


I wish you well, as always, and may God bless you in many ways.

Scripture is our SOLE source about the antichrist, millenium, etc.

I believe the trib will be less than 3.5 years long, as Jesus said He'd cut it short lest ALL flesh(Greek sark=human or animal flesh) perish.

And while I MOSTLY agree with you, I believe the rapture will be before the trib, & here's why:

Rev. 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

I believe we know the 7 churches in Rev have TYPES of them among today's churches, so whatever Jesus had John write to those churches applies to their types today.

 

[robycop3]

Enough, roby, please stop with the labeling and personal attacks;
It's "conduct unbecoming" us as Christians and it's my belief that this forum enjoys far too much of allowing such things.

Additionally, ( and I say this to everyone here )...
No believer has any right to malign anyone, given the magnitude of what the Lord has done for us.

Would that we would all keep this in mind when we discuss what we see in His word, myself being first and foremost.

I believe God has given me the task to work against false doctrines of faith/worship, & those who hawk them or indicate they believe them. ALL Christians should work to do this, at least SOME. I am NOT going to let up attacking them as I come across them, as I answer to GOD in these matters.

As for preterism:

All that any pret need do to sustain his/her doctrine is to show us from history when the eschatological events were fulfilled, tell us the name of the antichrist & his sidekick the false prophet, and describe the mark of the beast. Shouldn't be hard, if those things have already occurred.

However, I've been asking preterists for such proof for some 40 years, & haven't received any truthful reply yet. Thus, I proclaim preterism a LIE until its homeboys can **PROVE** differently. (But I won't hold my breath waiting; I believe I'd become quite-cyanotic!)

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm sorry to have offended you, Willis.
I relate what I see in the Scriptures and tell people honestly about it.

For the record, I do not see the Bible teaching "a-millennialism" and even after 43+ years ( the last 15 of it or so in careful study of the Scriptures ), I never have.
Rather, when it comes to end-times events, I understand them like this:

I am "Pre-Millennial" , "Post-Tribulational rapture", with a 3.5 year tribulation ( not 7 years ) followed by His people spending a literal 1,000 year reign with the Lord bodily at Jerusalem.
If you don't see it that way, then I suppose that we'll have to agree to disagree.


I wish you well, as always, and may God bless you in many ways.

I’m not offended my brother at all. I’m just saying all the imagery in that passage, a symbolic chain binding a symbolic dragon for a symbolic 1,000 years, IMO, would be the more accurate way of interpreting it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thought you are postmil?

Leaning that way, but I’ve much to learn.

 

[Yeshua1]

Leaning that way, but I’ve much to learn.

Do not ever go preterist though!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do not ever go preterist though!

Partial preterist, even if I decide post-mill is not the correct eschatology.

 

[Iconoclast]

But it says WHY men are without excuse.

I have asked you about some of your views. You have offered what you can. I cannot expect you to do more than what you are able to do. You have not established your literal view, and have offered some flawed ideas.
Thanks for trying and offering your ideas.

 

[Scott Downey]

i believe at lease SOME isolated peoples worship God without actually knowing who He is, as did some ancient Greex, who had a temple to an unknown god-unknown until Paul told them who this unknown god is-the REAL GOD.

Many Indians worshipped the "Great Spirit", not knowing much about Him except that He was in charge of everything.

That even if true, did not save them.
Christ said He is the way, truth and the life.
And no one comes to the Father except through Him, He is the door of the sheep.

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

I personally believe that if anyone is worshipping the true God, then God is at work in them, and they will be led to Christ, Romans 8, all things work to the good of them that love God, who are the called according to His purposes.
Then there was the centurion in Acts, who worshipped God, who had an angelic vision and was led to Christ by Peter.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius!”

4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.” 7 And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa.

 

[robycop3]

I have asked you about some of your views. You have offered what you can. I cannot expect you to do more than what you are able to do. You have not established your literal view, and have offered some flawed ideas.
Thanks for trying and offering your ideas.

History and reality prove the literal view. You simply don't accept it, which is your right. But I believe the whole readership is the best judge of who's right, based upon the available evidence.

 

[robycop3]

That even if true, did not save them.
Christ said He is the way, truth and the life.
And no one comes to the Father except through Him, He is the door of the sheep.

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

I personally believe that if anyone is worshipping the true God, then God is at work in them, and they will be led to Christ, Romans 8, all things work to the good of them that love God, who are the called according to His purposes.
Then there was the centurion in Acts, who worshipped God, who had an angelic vision and was led to Christ by Peter.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius!”

4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.” 7 And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa.

It's not the fault of isolated people if they've never heard of God. And, as God is perfectly-just, I don't believe He condemns such people who die having never heard of Him at all.