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Millennial Questions
- Thread starter DeafPosttrib
- Start date
context demands that Christ is there too...
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Satan's Doom
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Brother Bob
New Member
I beg to differ. Jesus is in Heaven today and he can reign from there as easy as on earth, probably more easier. Why would He want a natural kingdom on earth, when He seeks such to worship Him in Spirit and Truth.
Brother Bob
New Member
you read closely it says the "souls" OF THEM, in other words a part of a whole.
If it were as you say, it would of said I saw the souls that were beheaded, but it does not, it says "of them".
SOULS
Greek word
5590
yuch
psuche
psoo-khay'
from yucw - psucho 5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from pneuma - pneuma 4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from zwh - zoe 2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew fagw - phago 5315, 7307 and chay 2416):--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
If it were as you say, it would of said I saw the souls that were beheaded, but it does not, it says "of them".
SOULS
Greek word
5590
yuch
psuche
psoo-khay'
from yucw - psucho 5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from pneuma - pneuma 4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from zwh - zoe 2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew fagw - phago 5315, 7307 and chay 2416):--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
...because He says He would have it that wayBrother Bob said:
God will live WITH man...here.
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Brother Bob
New Member
And that He will, but not only for a thousand years, but for eternity.
Look up the Greek for "Souls" in Rev 20:4
Web; You ever wonder why Jesus, Peter, James, Luke, Paul never spoke of a thousand year reign???
Do you know how long the physical Kingdom doctrine has been in the church??
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Brother Bob
New Member
J D
Thanks, ...........:thumbs:
Thanks, ...........:thumbs:
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Brother Bob,
I do enjoy reading your posts. I agree with your posts as what you saying. You are correct. Keep up! :thumbs:
Right now, Christ is in the heaven. He is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. He already have the keys of the death and hell(Rev. 1:18). "keys" is not a literal thing. It reperents that it is power and authority. Christ now have the authority, because Father already exalted His Son after his resurrection (Phil. 2:9-11). Now, Christ is reigning from his throne, he rules over heaven and earth. Also, Christ already given the power to Church since Pentacost Day. Matt. 16:18-19 already fulfilled that Christ given the power("keys") to the Church, that the Church spread the gospel over all nations since Christ overcamed Satan at Calvary 2000 years ago. That what Rev. 20:1-6 is all about.
By the way, I haven't receive one answer of six questions from you yet. I am waiting for you to answer me of six questions.
Also, I will continue make posts to ask countless questions on millennial coming in the next days & weeks.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I do enjoy reading your posts. I agree with your posts as what you saying. You are correct. Keep up! :thumbs:
Right now, Christ is in the heaven. He is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. He already have the keys of the death and hell(Rev. 1:18). "keys" is not a literal thing. It reperents that it is power and authority. Christ now have the authority, because Father already exalted His Son after his resurrection (Phil. 2:9-11). Now, Christ is reigning from his throne, he rules over heaven and earth. Also, Christ already given the power to Church since Pentacost Day. Matt. 16:18-19 already fulfilled that Christ given the power("keys") to the Church, that the Church spread the gospel over all nations since Christ overcamed Satan at Calvary 2000 years ago. That what Rev. 20:1-6 is all about.
By the way, I haven't receive one answer of six questions from you yet. I am waiting for you to answer me of six questions.
Also, I will continue make posts to ask countless questions on millennial coming in the next days & weeks.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Brother Bob
New Member
DeafPosttrib
Pm me your questions or post them again, I can't remember what they were, sorry.
Pm me your questions or post them again, I can't remember what they were, sorry.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Yep, here is Strong's:Brother Bob said:
G5507
χίλιοι
chilioi
khil'-ee-oy
Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.
Early pre-mills were called 'Chilioists'.
I think [I wasn't there, unlike some who know exactly
how third century (0201-0300) people thought]
pre-mill was the major until Niciae in 325AD.
Then, the Church (I believe the Eastern Orthodox
are the closest to rilght) got in bed with the Roman
Empire and made the post-mill orthodox. The
Way became an effort to kill Pagans (the killing times,
the black cats still remember), make the world
Christers, then their Christ would come back and
rule for 1,000 literal Chilioi: The Chilioi Christ Kingdom
ON EARTH. This vew held sway in 11th century (1001-1100)
when the RCC (Roman Catholics) and Eastern Orthodox
split. (I note at the time that in the 11th Century
the largest Denomination in the world was the
East Syrian (the Nestorian heresy according to the RCC)
which spead from East Syria (Think about it) to Japan in
the northeast and Indonisia in the southwest.
Haven't heard about the Nestorians? The RCC pulled
the wool over the eyes of the Protestants with that one :tonofbricks:
Yes, if one gets to be a senior citizen, one has checked a
few things here and there. What should I have noticed?
Needless to say:
I believe there is a coming physical/literal Millennial Messanic
Kingdom: Messiah Jesus ruling physical Saved Jewish/Israeli
chosen/elect/ from a physical throne of David in a physical
Herusalem in a physical world.
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Brother Bob
New Member
If you notice Ed, it says "uncertain affinity" and I could give scripture to back that up, but you already know them. A thousand years is as yesterday.
The Lord came to His own, "Israel" and they receive Him not, but as many as did He gave them power to become the sons of God.
It is not longer Jew or Greek, but they have become as one.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Look in 2 Peter 3:8 says, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord AS A THOUSAND years, and A THOUSAND years AS ONE DAY."
'A thousand' of verse 8 is not taking literal exactly or specific lengeth of the years. This is a figurative of spiritual meaning.
Earlier in context of verse 8 back to verse 4, the scoffers asked, where is the promise of His coming. Many of them were sleep(died), they were expecting that the Lord would come in their lifetime, but it didn't happens in their lifetime. They make fun at Noah, and at Christians for hear old story of second coming. Often, Christians told them, that the Lord might come anytime. But, none was happen in their lifetime. They do not believe Christ will come again-never.
But, verse 10 warns the coming of the Lord shall be like as thief, it means that, his coming will be quickly - Rev. 22:20.
A thousand years seem to people that it is toooooo long time. But, in the Lord's sight, a thousand years is tooooooo short time like as one day.
Also, in Psalms 50:10 says, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."
Doesn't God own 1001 hills?
Verse 10 shows the symbolic numbers that means, there are multiply of hills over the world, that God owns them all.
Look next verse - Psalms 50:11 says, "I know ALL the fowls of the mountians: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."
Verse 10 and 11 telling us, God owns all things of the world that, He created them.
So, the point is, verse 10 of 'a thousand hills', do not mean that there is the exactly number of hills over the world. Impossible for us to count the exactly number of hills over the world. There are thousands, and thousands of hills over the world. Verse 10-11 talkng about everything that God owns them.
Not long time ago, while I read Psalms chapter 50. Interesting, I looked at Psalams 50:3-5 saying, "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
This passage show the clear speaking of the second advent, that Christ shall judge the world, at the same time, He shall gather Christians together. This is speak of rapture. Clearly, this passage telling us that, rapture shall be at second advent same time is posttribulational. Also, this passage shows us, there shall be the only ONE judgment day, not two or three judgment days according to Dispensationalism doctrine.
And other example verse of 'thousand' in Psalms 105:4, 8-10 say: "Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore. He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham; and he oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law; and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."
This passage is speak of God's promise with Israel is eternal without end.
God's covenant with a thousand generations, it shows that, there is no limited of number of generations that, God made covenant with them. God made covenant with many from Abraham to all generations of today by apply to all nations who believe in Jesus Christ through Calvary. It is an everlasting covenant.
There are too many examples in Bible of 'thousand' with symbolic meanings. I could list many of them if I can. Psalms 50:10-11 and Psalms 105:8-10 both are very clear good enough for us to understand the meaning of symbolic number, what these are talking about.
Now, let's look to Rev. 20:2-6 say: "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottoml;ess pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not againb until the thousand years were finished. This is the 'first resurrection'. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the 'first resurrection': on such "the second death" hath o power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
Notice, two things in this context say, "a thousand", and "the thousand". This conext didn't saying, "one thousand" or "two thousand" either.
This scene shows us that, the Church did overcame the world, mark, refused receive the mark or worship the wicked world system in their lifetime throughout Church history, their souls are now in heaven with the Lord. They are reigning with Christ in heaven. They have been reigning with Christ for nearly 2,000 years already since Calvary to now. 'a thousand years' & 'the thousand years' are represent as symbolic numbers mean that, they have been reigning with Christ IN HEAVEN for a short time or temporary time. Church reigning with Christ in the heaven(third heaven) will not be last forever and ever. Because, Christ shall descend out of heaven. As the saints shall follow Christ in the air. Then, when after Christ creates new earth, Church shall reign with Christ on new earth for forever and ever.
Understand clear?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
'A thousand' of verse 8 is not taking literal exactly or specific lengeth of the years. This is a figurative of spiritual meaning.
Earlier in context of verse 8 back to verse 4, the scoffers asked, where is the promise of His coming. Many of them were sleep(died), they were expecting that the Lord would come in their lifetime, but it didn't happens in their lifetime. They make fun at Noah, and at Christians for hear old story of second coming. Often, Christians told them, that the Lord might come anytime. But, none was happen in their lifetime. They do not believe Christ will come again-never.
But, verse 10 warns the coming of the Lord shall be like as thief, it means that, his coming will be quickly - Rev. 22:20.
A thousand years seem to people that it is toooooo long time. But, in the Lord's sight, a thousand years is tooooooo short time like as one day.
Also, in Psalms 50:10 says, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."
Doesn't God own 1001 hills?
Verse 10 shows the symbolic numbers that means, there are multiply of hills over the world, that God owns them all.
Look next verse - Psalms 50:11 says, "I know ALL the fowls of the mountians: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."
Verse 10 and 11 telling us, God owns all things of the world that, He created them.
So, the point is, verse 10 of 'a thousand hills', do not mean that there is the exactly number of hills over the world. Impossible for us to count the exactly number of hills over the world. There are thousands, and thousands of hills over the world. Verse 10-11 talkng about everything that God owns them.
Not long time ago, while I read Psalms chapter 50. Interesting, I looked at Psalams 50:3-5 saying, "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."
This passage show the clear speaking of the second advent, that Christ shall judge the world, at the same time, He shall gather Christians together. This is speak of rapture. Clearly, this passage telling us that, rapture shall be at second advent same time is posttribulational. Also, this passage shows us, there shall be the only ONE judgment day, not two or three judgment days according to Dispensationalism doctrine.
And other example verse of 'thousand' in Psalms 105:4, 8-10 say: "Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore. He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham; and he oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law; and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."
This passage is speak of God's promise with Israel is eternal without end.
God's covenant with a thousand generations, it shows that, there is no limited of number of generations that, God made covenant with them. God made covenant with many from Abraham to all generations of today by apply to all nations who believe in Jesus Christ through Calvary. It is an everlasting covenant.
There are too many examples in Bible of 'thousand' with symbolic meanings. I could list many of them if I can. Psalms 50:10-11 and Psalms 105:8-10 both are very clear good enough for us to understand the meaning of symbolic number, what these are talking about.
Now, let's look to Rev. 20:2-6 say: "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottoml;ess pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not againb until the thousand years were finished. This is the 'first resurrection'. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the 'first resurrection': on such "the second death" hath o power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
Notice, two things in this context say, "a thousand", and "the thousand". This conext didn't saying, "one thousand" or "two thousand" either.
This scene shows us that, the Church did overcame the world, mark, refused receive the mark or worship the wicked world system in their lifetime throughout Church history, their souls are now in heaven with the Lord. They are reigning with Christ in heaven. They have been reigning with Christ for nearly 2,000 years already since Calvary to now. 'a thousand years' & 'the thousand years' are represent as symbolic numbers mean that, they have been reigning with Christ IN HEAVEN for a short time or temporary time. Church reigning with Christ in the heaven(third heaven) will not be last forever and ever. Because, Christ shall descend out of heaven. As the saints shall follow Christ in the air. Then, when after Christ creates new earth, Church shall reign with Christ on new earth for forever and ever.
Understand clear?
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
Bob,
No earthly kingdom of Christ? How do you explain Ezek 37:24-25 Who is David the king as opposed to David the prince?
And why, if there is no 1000 year earthly kingdom, is there one NJ that is 15 miles on either side (Ezek 48:30-35) and another come down to earth that is 1500 miles on either side (Rev 21)? And why do they call the former "the Lord is there."
skypair
No earthly kingdom of Christ? How do you explain Ezek 37:24-25 Who is David the king as opposed to David the prince?
And why, if there is no 1000 year earthly kingdom, is there one NJ that is 15 miles on either side (Ezek 48:30-35) and another come down to earth that is 1500 miles on either side (Rev 21)? And why do they call the former "the Lord is there."
skypair
Brother Bob
New Member
We are talking about the millinuim Kingdom and could you please show me scripture it will be on earth??
As far as being two Israels, they have already come together as on which is Judah. All Israel is known as the Jews now,and they all look to David as their King. But guess what, Christ came and filled the seat of the throne of David and to His Kingdom, there shall be no end. Everyone needs to quit living in the past. Christ is on David's throne now and forever. Also, He came to His own, (Israel) but they received Him not, but a remnant did receive Him and as many as did, He gave them power to become the sons of God. Also, the door is still open for them, if they will believe. We are no longer Jew or Greek, but have become as one.
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I realize that. I was supposing that if you answered my questions, you should have discovered that there is a kingdom between a) the trib temple, b) the millennial temple and Jerusalem, and c) the eternal NJ which IS the temple of God.Brother Bob said:
Or to put it more succinctly I hope, there is Christ's spiritual kingdom now -- His physical kingdom for the millennium (during which the lion lays down with the lamb, the reaper overtakes the sower and yet there is still sin and death) -- God's eternal kingdom (no death and hell) last.
skypair
Brother Bob
New Member
There is a Spiritual Kingdom now, and in the resurrection the bodies of the saved will enter that Kingdom also and when the last enemy hath been put down, then will the same Kingdom be delivered UP to the Father.
BTW; I added to my previous post.
Isa 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
How can you say that David is going to get his throne back, when scripture says that the Lord will sit on his throne forever??
BBob,
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DeafPosttrib
New Member
The Kingdom is described in Luke 17:20-21.
"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh NOT with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU."
Pharisees asked Christ, they demanded him, want to know when the kingdom of God shall come. He told them, this is not come with observation, it is inside within us. He was speak of spiritual kingdom from above.
Christ already bring kingdom from Heaven by send the Holy Spirit down upon Christians on Pentacost Day, to preach the gospel of the kingdom over the world.
Also, the kingdom, itself have no end, it is an everlasting kingdom accroding in Daniel 7:27.
Right now, the kingdom is spiritual, because Christ already given the power to Church for to spread the gospel over the world. When Christ shall come to earth at second advent. Christ shall give it to His Father. The kingdom shall became both spiritual and physical for the prepare of future new heavens and a new earth in the next age to come.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh NOT with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU."
Pharisees asked Christ, they demanded him, want to know when the kingdom of God shall come. He told them, this is not come with observation, it is inside within us. He was speak of spiritual kingdom from above.
Christ already bring kingdom from Heaven by send the Holy Spirit down upon Christians on Pentacost Day, to preach the gospel of the kingdom over the world.
Also, the kingdom, itself have no end, it is an everlasting kingdom accroding in Daniel 7:27.
Right now, the kingdom is spiritual, because Christ already given the power to Church for to spread the gospel over the world. When Christ shall come to earth at second advent. Christ shall give it to His Father. The kingdom shall became both spiritual and physical for the prepare of future new heavens and a new earth in the next age to come.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
DeafPosttrib
New Member
2 Timothy 2:1-4,
Isaiah 11:11,12 do not say, "one thousand years" in that passage.
Isiah 65:9 do not say, "a thousand years".
Ezkekiel 36:28,29; 39:28 did not say, "a thousand years"
You cannot prove them which do not mentioned "one thousand years".
So, I am still wait for you yet to prove a clear Scripture or verse saying that Christ shall reign on earth for ONE THOUSAND years.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Isaiah 11:11,12 do not say, "one thousand years" in that passage.
Isiah 65:9 do not say, "a thousand years".
Ezkekiel 36:28,29; 39:28 did not say, "a thousand years"
You cannot prove them which do not mentioned "one thousand years".
So, I am still wait for you yet to prove a clear Scripture or verse saying that Christ shall reign on earth for ONE THOUSAND years.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
DeafPosttrib said:
Yep, none mention '1,000 years'.
But when we speak of a Millennial Messanic Kingdom on Earth
we need all repeferences to 'millennial' 'Messiah' 'Kingdom'
'earth' not to mention 'ruling from Jerusalem' 'King David's
throne' 'King David's son' etc.
None of these passages mention velcro but velcro
still holds my shoes on my feet.