Millennial Questions

Rev 21:2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Who is the Bride??


Rev 3:12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.


So it seems the children will be the bride and the City of New Jerusalem. I can show you scripture where the foundation is the twelve apostles and the twelve gates are the twelve tribes of Israel and the City is the Bride of the Lamb, which is the believers. Anyone looking to spend eternity over in what is now Jerusalem, is in for a dissappointment.

 

I'm looking forward to it

I would suggest reading Heaven by Randy Alcorn. I, too, used to think this earth would be completely destroyed...BUT, that would be an admission by God that His creation was a mistake, and He has no power over sin, since sin is what tainted it. We were created for this planet, and for Him. He will see to it that both are fulfilled to the utmost.

 

Well, He must of already admitted it then!!!

Gen 6:7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Anyway, He will not need this earth anymore for we will be in Heaven, where God is.

 

Isa 11:11-12 (KJV1611 Edition):
And it shall come to passe in that day,
that the Lord shall set his hande againe
the second time, to recouer the remnant of his people
which shalbe left, from Assyria, and from Egypt,
& from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam,
and from Shinar, and from Hamath,
and from the ylands of the Sea.
12 And he shall set vp an ensigne for the nations,
and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather together the dispersed of Iudah,
from the foure corners of the earth.

Very astute - it does not talk about 1,000 years.
Does not matter though - it does talk about
things that have not happened yet even for us.
I also note (just to show it doesn't matter) that
the Isaiah 11:11-12 passages does not show the
necessity of repentance for Jesus to save you.
But if one sinned before one gets saved by Jesus,
I highly recommend that one repent.

Not every passage has to have every detail
of what is going on. This passage is something
that will happen after the Jewish/Israeli came back
from the Babylonian captivity - From like about
the time that Jesus was born, the Jews were being
scattered abroad. They did not start gathering
back together until after 1/3 of them where killed
by Christian Germans posing as
Christians. That is why I don't use the terms 'Christian'
& 'Christ' very often for they are
curse words to my Jewish friends.

I believe you may be speaking of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV1611 Edition):
Now wee beseech you, brethren, by the comming
of our Lord Iesus Christ,
and [(totally different set of events)]
by our gathering together vnto him,
2 That yee bee not soone shaken in minde,
or bee troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter, as from vs, as that the day of Christ
is at hand,
3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes,
for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first[(this is the rapture2)], and
that man of sinne bee reuealed, the sonne of perdition,
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himselfe
aboue all that is called God, or that is worshipped:
so that he as God, sitteth in the Temple of God,
shewing himselfe that he is God.

Very astute - it does not talk about 1,000 years.
Does not matter though - it does talk about
things that have not happened yet even for us.
I also note (just to show it doesn't matter) that
the Isaiah 11:11-12 passages does not show the
necessity of repentance for Jesus to save you.
But if one sinned before one gets saved by Jesus,
I highly recommend that one repent.

In no wise would I equate the Millennial
Messianic Kingdom of Jesus with this time
of rule for the 'man of sin'. I note that
'Antichrist' isn't mentioned here - but it
seems safe to equate the term 'Antichrist'
with the attribute 'man of sin'.

Eze 36:28-29 ... 39:28 (KJV1611 Edition):
And ye shall dwel in the land that I gaue
to your fathers, and ye shall be my people,
and I wil be your God.
29 I wil also saue you from all your
vncleannesses, and I will call for the corne,
and will increase it, and lay no famine vpon you.
...
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am
the Lord their God, which caused them
to be led into captiuitie among the heathen:
but I haue gathered them vnto their owne land,
and haue left none of them any more there.

Very astute - it does not talk about 1,000 years.
Does not matter though - it does talk about
things that have not happened yet even for us.
I also note (just to show it doesn't matter) that
the Isaiah 11:11-12 passages does not show the
necessity of repentance for Jesus to save you.
But if one sinned before one gets saved by Jesus,
I highly recommend that one repent.

I see no problem equating this with the Millennial
Messanic Kingdom ruled over by Messiah
Yeshua ben Yoseph of Nazereth.

One can prove a lot about verses that don't specifically
mention the 1,000 year length of the Messianic Earthly
Kingdom of Jesus.

When does the Messanic Kingdom Start?
Some verses say the the Messanic Kingdom
will start right after Jesus comes back
in His two prong Second Advent (AKA: Second
Coming).

When does the Messanic Kingdom End?
before the new heavens & new earth.

All that we don't know for sure is if
the 1,000 years is literal/physical or
a metaphor for A LONG TIME.
That is a matter of opinion, for the
Bible doesn't address it directly.
I believe it is a physical/literal 1,000 years
(Give or take a power of ten - I.E.
somewhere between 100 and 10,000 and
I'll still say /after it happens/ that it
was 1,000 years, just like I thought.

I have no problem with people who count
the 1,000 year length of the Earthly Messanic
Kingdom as figurative. But you can't go around
making everything spiritual with out looking like
a Spiritualist.

 

You are going to be in for a pleasant surprise, BBob :laugh:

 

Thanks Web; that son of yours is growing. I bet you are one proud dad?

BBob,

 

If you think he's growing, you should see my wife's stomach :laugh:
(I shouldn't laugh, mine is growing right along with her...can't allow here to have all the good cravings, you know.)

 

Bob, DPT,

I'm not sure where y'all are coming from but it's not from the Bible. Psa 2:6-9 tells us God's plan for the MK following Armageddon. "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession."

Dan 7:13-14, ditto. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him:..."

You know, I hate to give you too many at once but you're just ripping out scriptures that you don't like here and making a liar out of God.

And it is obvious you don't have the full picture. Rapture - tribulation - resurrection of OT saints - MK - rapture of saints of earth - earth reformed - eternal kingdom (this is the one that never ends with NJ coming down from heaven).

Besides denying that Christ will have an earthly MK, you are denying the 70th week of Daniel, the tribulation DOTL. Together, these fulfill all the OT covenants! And I don't see the reformation of the earth in your schema, either.

skypair

 

Jesus didn't see it either, or at least did not feel it was of importance so as to tell us.

BBob,

 

BBob -- what do you think Mt 25:13-46 is all about? In what kingdom will the ones who made 5 and 10 talents be given the 2?? What kingdom will those on His right, the sheep, inherit?

Look at Mt 24:45-51 -- in what kingdom will the "faithful servant ... rule over all His goods?"

Are you just not much into eschatology, BBob??

skypair

 

Not to the point you all are. As far as the Kingdom, I believe it will be the same Kingdom that is within you now and in the resurrection, it will be both soul and body. I believe its still talking about the same Kingdom.

I really take the stance that Calvin and Wesley and others took. It is a spiritual thing and most is taking place now.

I guess I shouldn't get into these eschatology discussions, for I believe it will be a very short work the Lord will do when He comes.

Maybe I should be as John Wesley and not claim to have an eschatology.

John Wesley does not have an eschatology, when one considers such a subject in the light of the results of systematic theology. Actually, the word "eschatology" is of nineteenth century origin. However, Wesley does emphasize those subjects usually connected with a serious consideration of eschatology, i.e. death, the intermediate state of the soul, the resurrection, the second coming of Christ, the judgment, the end of the world, heaven, and hell.


BBob,

 

This is the Westminster Confession of Faith and describes my belief closely, but not exact.

 

Today we have a spiritual kingdom but not physical. There will be 2 spiritual and physical kingdoms to come: 1) Christ's theocracy, which will be much like Adam's day (God was present with Adam yet sin and death were possible); and 2) God's, which will be eternal, perfect, no corruption at all.

So, multiple choice -- which do we live in? A) spiritual kingdom absent the King or B) phsyical theocracy of Messiah or C) God's kingdom "face to face."

skypair

 

BBob,

Per "The Last Judgment:"

Consider 2Pet "a 1000 years is as a day with the Lord." The rapture to the GWT is 1000 years. In "that day," judgment will be upon the church, earth, angels, Israel, and the lost. Then follows the perfect, eternal kingdom of God.

skypair

 

Are you saying the Lord is not your King now??



The best synopsis of Wesley's theology of the Kingdom may be one of his sermons on The Lord's Prayer:

In order that the name of God may be hallowed, we pray that His kingdom, the kingdom of Christ, may come. This kingdom then comes to a particular person, when he "repents and believes the gospel"; when he is taught of God, not only to know himself, but to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified. As "this is the life eternal, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He hath sent"; so it is the kingdom of God begun below, set up in the believer's heart; "the Lord God Omnipotent then 'reigneth,' " when He is known through Christ Jesus. He taketh unto Himself His mighty power, that He may subdue all things unto Himself. He goeth on in the soul conquering and to conquer, till He hath put all things under His feet, till "every thought is brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ."


​

Did all of the old brethren have the Kingdom of God and eschatology wrong until the ninetenth century??

 

Read the options again before asking to silly questions. If here and now is His physical kingdom, where is He. He's in heaven, right? Seated at the right hand of God.

He's coming again to reign over the whole earth for 1000 years on "His holy mountain." Right now He is only the King over you and me and a handful of others per every 10,000 inhabitants of the earth.

Oh, are you insinuating that the Roman Catholic Church had it right after all? Again, why do you posit silly questions? The Bible (Rev 20) has spoken of it since 90 AD. Blame who you will that no one believed it, it was there all the time.

skypair

 

Why is the truth silly to you??? Its a number that no man can number, according to scripture. Jesus said at this time His Kingdom did not come by observation, but is within us. As I research all the early brethren they did not speak of several Kingdoms, Just you and those who started it in the ninetenth century. Why should I agree with you when I don't?? He can be where ever He wants to be. He is in Heaven beside the Father, but He is my King, and the government of the church is upon His shoulders.

I did not know John Wesley was Catholic???

Why do you use remarks that bring out the worst in people? Such as calling our posts silly?

 

Not to get into this deeply, for we've been over it several times, but what do you mean by saying John Wesley did not have an eschatology? Of course he did, just as you and I do, even if what I say happens to be far more detailed (and correct) :smilewinkgrin: than what you are saying.

The fact that we happen to differ one from another, or that one is not as detailed in his own mind as another does not mean he doesn't have a doctrine of eshcatology, or any other doctrine, for that matter.

For an example, just because you and I believe in immersion, as the mode for baptism, and another believes 'sprinkling' or 'pouring' is acceptable does not mean they do not believe in baptism.

Just means that they are completely wrong, on this point. :laugh: :laugh:

Ed