Minimum Education

[gb93433]

{SNIPPED due to quote of edited text} I would feel very uncomfrortable inviting an educated man to listen to a man who cannot speak without butcherung the English language when there are other churches which have pastors who can communicate clearly using correct grammar. To the educated poor grammar sticks out like squeaking chalk on a chalkboard. When I hear a man makes mistakes regularly because he is ignorant I reach the point where I cannot trust him and do not want my family and friends to hear things which are not true.

[ January 27, 2006, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

"God hath chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise."

{SNIPPED}

Mark Osgatharp

[ January 27, 2006, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[SeekingTruth]

Mark, again I find myself agreeing with you. The elitism displayed by many of the posters on this forum is very disturbing to me.

For example, John the Baptist would gb93433 have trusted him? As far as I know, he appears to have been an uneducated man and may have used poor grammar. Moses, had a speech defect, he probably mis-spoke occaisionally. I guess the Hebrew children should have not trusted him.

I believe that education is good for all, not just a preacher. However, from viewing some of the debates on doctrinal issues on this forum, I see too many occaisions where the debate degenerates to an intellectual discussion of Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic and other languages and their rules of syntax.

 

[gb93433]

{SNIPPED - Quote of edited text}

There is a difference between a fool and a fool for Christ.

Read your Bible at least once and you will find Paul to be very educated and humble. Unlike those who take pride in their ignorance.

{Snipped}

[ January 27, 2006, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[here now]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
{SNIPPED - Quote of edited text}

Perhaps that is often the case. It is not always the case though. I would feel very uncomfrortable inviting an educated man to listen to a man who cannot speak without butcherung the English language when there are other churches which have pastors who can communicate clearly using correct grammar. To the educated poor grammar sticks out like squeaking chalk on a chalkboard. When I hear a man makes mistakes regularly because he is ignorant I reach the point where I cannot trust him and do not want my family and friends to hear things which are not true. </font>[/QUOTE]\


Hi gb,
What in the world are you talking about.

When you say ignorant I take it that you are speaking of his useage of incorrect grammar. Why would you think that what he is saying is not true and that he could not be trusted?

[ January 27, 2006, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Seeking Truth,

Your point about John the Baptist is very cogent. Jesus explicitly said that the people should not have expected John to dress in soft raiment, similarly to those in kings houses.

The plain implication of what Jesus said is that you cannot judge a gospel preacher on the same level as a government official. The ramification of that litle piece of information to the current discussion is so obvious as to need no elaboration.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[buckster75]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Here is a thought for consideration:

If a man preaches on a level that the most uneducated will understand, he will still be understood by the highly educated. But if a man preaches on a highly educated level, he will not be understood by the man with little education.

Therefore, the best policy is to preach on a level that the uneducated will understand and the message will reach the educated as well. This is especially true considering the fact that most people fall into the category of lower educational level (they tell us that even many who graduate from high school cannot read with comprehension).

If the highly educated are too proud to listen to a message delivered at a lower educational level, he is a lost cause anyway, because God is not into saving the proud.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
For example, John the Baptist would gb93433 have trusted him? As far as I know, he appears to have been an uneducated man and may have used poor grammar.

God used a donkey. {SNIP}

How many of the NT writers do you know who were uneducated? Anyone who could read during the time of Jesus was well educated. Also, Greek was a second language to most of the NT writers.

Was Paul an elitist? He was very well educated even by today's standards.

[ January 27, 2006, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[buckster75]

{SNIP _ QUOTE of edited text}

Like it Mark. My first SS teacher (as an adult) was a very simple speaking man. Had he used "dispensation" or started speaking greek we woulda been outa there in a flash.

[ January 27, 2006, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by gb93433:
How many of the NT writers do you know who were uneducated? Anyone who could read during the time of Jesus was well educated. Also, Greek was a second language to most of the NT writers.

Was Paul an elitist? He was very well educated even by today's standards.

No one is here is against knowledge. We are only against the absurdity that knowledge cannot be had except by lapping at the feet of some "Drs." for four or eight years.

For the record, Paul said he counted his education as a Jew "but dung" that he might win the knowledge of Christ. Would to God that those absorbed in the psuedo-intellectualism of the modern schools could have that same revelation.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by here now:

When you say ignorant I take it that you are speaking of his useage of incorrect grammar. Why would you think that what he is saying is not true and that he could not be trusted?

There are two points I am trying to make. One is about poor grammar and the other is ignorance of the Bible.

Show me one man who is very well educated about the Bible and has poor grammar. A pastor who studies a lot will improve in many ways and have a desire to improve in his ability to communicate. I have heard men speak who don't have a lot of education but have good grammar and are knowledegable about the Bible. They have studied hard for many years. I have never heard one who takes pride in being uneducated ever grow much if any. Pride comes before a fall and a hauhty spirit before stumbling.

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
The Holy Spirit equips us for meaningful and fruitful service in the church.

The Holy Spirit is no substitute for preparation. </font>[/QUOTE]the statement I made in no way suggests what your reply atempts to imply it does. {SNIP}

[ January 27, 2006, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by here now:

When you say ignorant I take it that you are speaking of his useage of incorrect grammar. Why would you think that what he is saying is not true and that he could not be trusted?

There are two points I am trying to make. One is about poor grammar and the other is ignorance of the Bible.

Show me one man who is very well educated about the Bible and has poor grammar. A pastor who studies a lot will improve in many ways and have a desire to improve in his ability to communicate. I have heard men speak who don't have a lot of education but have good grammar and are knowledegable about the Bible. They have studied hard for many years. I have never heard one who takes pride in being uneducated ever grow much if any. Pride comes before a fall and a hauhty spirit before stumbling. </font>[/QUOTE]I have read nothing to make me think anyone here is taking pride in being uneducated. Those who claiming to have education continue to make this claim. It is actually showing "man's" wisdom for what it is, foolishness to God.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
No one is here is against knowledge. We are only against the absurdity that knowledge cannot be had except by lapping at the feet of some "Drs." for four or eight years.

Sure helps a lot to have as your professors those who are possessors. Humility is the key. God opposes the proud whether they be proud of their ignorance or education. I have seen both.

Early in my Chrisitan life had a great desire to learn more about the Bible so I asked a few pastors to help me learn Greek. Not one I asked could help me much. Later I went to seminary and it was great because I learned much more than I set out to learn.

When someone asked me about what I learned from seminary I gave him an answer he was not expecting. I told as I took Greek I saw more and more the compassion of Jesus. Not only did I learn Greek but I also saw much more clearly the compassion of Jesus. Isn't that what education should be about?

 

[Bro. James]

Pseudo-intellectualism--an interesting term. Could we have some examples and more discussion?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[here now]

gb,
I don't think that anyone here would disagree with you about not wanting family to hear a preacher who is ignorant on a Biblical level. That is why I was confused by your post.

The grammar part is a different.

 

[buckster75]

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by buckster75:
I have read nothing to make me think anyone here is taking pride in being uneducated. Those who claiming to have education continue to make this claim. It is actually showing "man's" wisdom for what it is, foolishness to God.

Didn't I read it right when somone labelled the educated as elitist?

With more education comes more responsibility. When one possess knowledge he must be more humble. It is easier to be humble when you know you know little. A wise person knows how little he knows. Even the most brilliant who know God well knows that they know so little.

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
I have read nothing to make me think anyone here is taking pride in being uneducated. Those who claiming to have education continue to make this claim. It is actually showing "man's" wisdom for what it is, foolishness to God.

Didn't I read it right when somone labelled the educated as elitist?

With more education comes more responsibility. When one possess knowledge he must be more humble. It is easier to be humble when you know you know little. A wise person knows how little he knows. Even the most brilliant who know God well knows that they know so little. </font>[/QUOTE]far cry from being proud