Modern Baal Worship Today?

[Marcia]

Do you agree with this article's viewpoint?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83960

...In his sermon, Pastor Mabray illustrated that, although they've now assumed a more contemporary flair, the fundamentals of Baal worship remain alive and well today. The principal pillars of Baalism were child sacrifice, sexual immorality (both heterosexual and homosexual) and pantheism (reverence of creation over the Creator).

...Modern liberalism deviates little from its ancient predecessor. While its macabre rituals have been sanitized with flowery and euphemistic terms of art, its core tenets and practices remain eerily similar. The worship of "fertility" has been replaced with worship of "reproductive freedom" or "choice." Child sacrifice via burnt offering has been updated, ever so slightly, to become child sacrifice by way of abortion. The ritualistic promotion, practice and celebration of both heterosexual and homosexual immorality and promiscuity have been carefully whitewashed – yet wholeheartedly embraced – by the cults of radical feminism, militant "gay rights" and "comprehensive sex education." And, the pantheistic worship of "mother earth" has been substituted – in name only – for radical environmentalism. <MORE>

Although it mentions Obama, I am not posting this for a purely political discussion, which is why I'm posting it here and not in News or Politics. The issue is more where do we draw the lines in the church, and have certain factions in the church already gone too far, especially the environmental issue, which seems to have become a biggie even among conservative Christians?

 

[preachinjesus]

World Net Daily isn't an awfully good source of commentary...or news for that imho.

The author is being ridiculous and his reasoning is self-serving. I don't agree with him. I don't see "liberals" parading the corpses of sacrificed babies before an atlar to anything. Show me where the ridiculous illustration of open air perversion is going on in our society.

Frankly so called conservatives, including some who claim Christ, are living just as "Baalistic" lives. In too many churches we let philanderers, theives, and frauds who parade around in sheeps clothing to have authority and influence in our congregations. The attack goes both ways. I'd suggest that conservatives have created equally as much harm and done it through the Church. The environmental issue is an important one, we must be good stewards of our environment.

I believe he hasn't thought his argument all the way through.



This guy is just representing an all too common, one sided view of things that is incredulous to understanding what is really going on. Why is it that evangelicals believe that there is a "war" between conservatives and liberals that we should be part of? Shouldn't we abstain from that conflict and rather offer the grace of Christ to world that needs a terrific representation of Him?

 

[Marcia]

World Net Daily isn't an awfully good source of commentary...or news for that imho.

The author is being ridiculous and his reasoning is self-serving. I don't agree with him. I don't see "liberals" parading the corpses of sacrificed babies before an atlar to anything. Show me where the ridiculous illustration of open air perversion is going on in our society.

Do you think sanctioning abortion is a close parallel? Maybe they aren't actually putting infants on altars of false gods, but they are approving killing unborn babies. And they are in denial that abortion actually takes the life of a human.

Frankly so called conservatives, including some who claim Christ, are living just as "Baalistic" lives. In too many churches we let philanderers, theives, and frauds who parade around in sheeps clothing to have authority and influence in our congregations. The attack goes both ways

I agree that there are conservative Christians (I am not using conservative in a political sense here) who may be like this, but that's besides the point. Just because they may be doing it doesn't make it okay. The issue is sanctioning abortion and same sex behavior and/or unions.

I'd suggest that conservatives have created equally as much harm and done it through the Church. The environmental issue is an important one, we must be good stewards of our environment.

But again, that's not the issue. The issue is: Is sanctioning abortion and same sex behavior similar to what was sanctioned in Baal worship? He included the environment which I think is a related but separate issue.

But what does it mean to be a good steward of the environment, aside from reasonable restraints on pollution? Must one recycle? Recycling itself uses fuel and causes more pollution. No matter what man does, there will be pollution because we are fallen creatures and produce waste. Where does one draw the line? Sometimes the line is so far out there, that the earth is seen as more sacred than people. Some environmentalists believe that people themselves are less important than the earth - that's where it can go.

This guy is just representing an all too common, one sided view of things that is incredulous to understanding what is really going on. Why is it that evangelicals believe that there is a "war" between conservatives and liberals that we should be part of? Shouldn't we abstain from that conflict and rather offer the grace of Christ to world that needs a terrific representation of Him

I don't see it as a war so much as a falling away.

 

[Amy.G]

I agree with the OP. People aren't actually putting aborted babies on physical altars, but they are most definitely being sacrificed on the altar of self-centeredness.

It is all part of the great falling away, when evil is good and good is evil.

 

[just-want-peace]

Old slew-foot could not care less the outward manifestation of the rituals - killing with saline, burning alive, allowing to starve after birth, beating to a pulp, sucking the brains out, or any other method is fine with him.

His goal is simply to waste human life and make mankind center his focus ANYWHERE but Jesus Christ - methods and labels be hanged!!

He surely loves it when Christians get so hung up on environmentalism also; particularly when it redirects their focus from the true God and creates little gods that can be manipulated.

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you agree with this article's viewpoint?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83960




Although it mentions Obama, I am not posting this for a purely political discussion, which is why I'm posting it here and not in News or Politics. The issue is more where do we draw the lines in the church, and have certain factions in the church already gone too far, especially the environmental issue, which seems to have become a biggie even among conservative Christians?

This has been discussed here

 

[Revmitchell]

World Net Daily isn't an awfully good source of commentary...or news for that imho.

The author is being ridiculous and his reasoning is self-serving. I don't agree with him. I don't see "liberals" parading the corpses of sacrificed babies before an atlar to anything. Show me where the ridiculous illustration of open air perversion is going on in our society.

Frankly so called conservatives, including some who claim Christ, are living just as "Baalistic" lives. In too many churches we let philanderers, theives, and frauds who parade around in sheeps clothing to have authority and influence in our congregations. The attack goes both ways. I'd suggest that conservatives have created equally as much harm and done it through the Church. The environmental issue is an important one, we must be good stewards of our environment.

I believe he hasn't thought his argument all the way through.



This guy is just representing an all too common, one sided view of things that is incredulous to understanding what is really going on. Why is it that evangelicals believe that there is a "war" between conservatives and liberals that we should be part of? Shouldn't we abstain from that conflict and rather offer the grace of Christ to world that needs a terrific representation of Him?

Sorry no grace can be offered to Christians who slaughter unborn children or vote for those who do.

 

[Marcia]

This has been discussed here

I never saw that thread. Of course, that was in the Politics Forum. I don't go there too often.

 

[Marcia]

....On the other hand, if we can post about coffee on a debate forum, why can't I duplicate a topic that was on Politics? Which is worse?

 

[Jim1999]

What solutions are Christians offering to the abortion issues? I mean real solutions for those young people who go out, get drunk (illegal anyway) and mess about ending up pregnant? The backyard abortionists killed babies and girls.......what alternative did the church offer without judgmentalism?

I can name speeding as a real social ill too, but you know how many Baptist preachers have been ticketed for speeding? Yes, speed kills infants too!

I am sure you get my point.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

What solutions are Christians offering to the abortion issues? I mean real solutions for those young people who go out, get drunk (illegal anyway) and mess about ending up pregnant? The backyard abortionists killed babies and girls.......what alternative did the church offer without judgmentalism?

I can name speeding as a real social ill too, but you know how many Baptist preachers have been ticketed for speeding? Yes, speed kills infants too!

I am sure you get my point.

Cheers,

Jim

Pregnancy Centers are supported by many churches for women who find themselves pregnant and not sure what to do. There is not much else one is allowed to do because of separation of church and state.

What help are we supposed to provide besides abstinence education, which is not always allowed and is totally mocked here. But abstinence is what God requires. Just because people don't follow it doesn't mean we should be okay with abortion.

So girls and guys are "messing around." Is it my job to stop that? And how should I stop it? I can't go into the schools and tell them what God says.

The reason they are messing around is in large part due to our culture which tells them it's okay to do so, and gives them messages via TV shows, movies, books, etc. that it's alright to act on your feelings and desires. Some parents even provide birth protection for their teens. All of this is a result of the permissive culture and lack of standards. In fact, to say wait until you are married is considered absolutely prudish and ridiculous these days. Yet that is what God says.

No matter how the church may or may not be failing, we should never be okay with abortion.

 

[Revmitchell]

What solutions are Christians offering to the abortion issues? I mean real solutions for those young people who go out, get drunk (illegal anyway) and mess about ending up pregnant? The backyard abortionists killed babies and girls.......what alternative did the church offer without judgmentalism?

I can name speeding as a real social ill too, but you know how many Baptist preachers have been ticketed for speeding? Yes, speed kills infants too!

I am sure you get my point.

Cheers,

Jim

Yes lets not judge those who murder the most innocent of all. That would be to much. You cant be saved til you get lost.

 

[Jim1999]

Nice solution, Rev. Now if we can get the rest of the churches to get on board...............

Cheers,

Jim

 

[donnA]

Do you think sanctioning abortion is a close parallel? Maybe they aren't actually putting infants on altars of false gods, but they are approving killing unborn babies. And they are in denial that abortion actually takes the life of a human

They sacrifcie the unborn to the god of pleasure, convience, and selfcenteredness. We may not actually see them placed on an alter to baal, but we see them paraded by people telling us how ok and right it is, and they have the right to murder their child if they choose. so yes the murdred unborn are being sacrificed and paraded as a freedom of choice.

What solutions are Christians offering to the abortion issues? I mean real solutions for those young people who go out, get drunk (illegal anyway) and mess about ending up pregnant? The backyard abortionists killed babies and girls.......what alternative did the church offer without judgmentalism?
I can name speeding as a real social ill too, but you know how many Baptist preachers have been ticketed for speeding? Yes, speed kills infants too!
I am sure you get my point.

how about we start with teaching kids not to have sex, not murdering.
seems simple enough.

You always seem to make excuses as to why murdering babies is alright, might as well, someone might speed and kill them as an infant, so why not murder them in the womb.

 

[Tom Butler]

What solutions are Christians offering to the abortion issues? I mean real solutions for those young people who go out, get drunk (illegal anyway) and mess about ending up pregnant? The backyard abortionists killed babies and girls.......what alternative did the church offer without judgmentalism?

I can name speeding as a real social ill too, but you know how many Baptist preachers have been ticketed for speeding? Yes, speed kills infants too!

I am sure you get my point.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, your point is well taken, but in my area of Western Kentucky there are at least a half-dozen Christian-run facilities for pregnancy counseling. In my home county, Hope Unlimited offers such counseling. It has a residential facility for pregnant women who have been abandoned by family or the baby's father. It has a clothing store where the clients may get the appropriate clothing, free of course.

Hope Unlimited has saved an untold number of babies from abortion through Biblical counseling, making mothers aware of an adoption alternative, helping them through the pregnancy. The women will be given the Biblical view of the sacredness of life; they will be witnessed to about the state of their souls; but they are not condemn ed. They don't need anyone to judge them. They are already beating themselves up and they're all scared.

This facility and many more like it in Western Kentucky are doing those things which meet the objections in your comments. This is not to deny the truth of your observations. Regretfully, there is much talk and not enough action.

The facilities I've cited are doing something.

 

[Jim1999]

Tom, I really appreciate what you are saying, and Kentucky is to be commended.

I certainly don't support abortion as a viable option. My policy has akways been: Abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. This takes care of life saving abortions and any other legitimate abortion.

It is also true, however, that little has been done about abortion in a practical sense. We are not going to save all, but I believe with the right action, as your folk in Kentucky are doing, a huge dent can be made.

In my area of Canada, aside from some counselling service, there is nothing,,I mean nothing,,available.

I think it is Wisconsin that adopted new policies on unwed mothers keeping children. They were allowed the first mistake, with assistance, but not the second.

We sure need more and those that start to keep at it.

Cheers, and thanks for that.

Jim

 

[Aaron]

Do you agree with this article's viewpoint?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83960

Yep. Sure do.

 

[thegospelgeek]

I certainly don't support abortion as a viable option. My policy has akways been: Abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. This takes care of life saving abortions and any other legitimate abortion.

Jim

emphasis added

... other legitimate abortion. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as a reality.

 

[J.D.]

Tom, I really appreciate what you are saying, and Kentucky is to be commended.

I certainly don't support abortion as a viable option. My policy has akways been: Abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. This takes care of life saving abortions and any other legitimate abortion.

It is also true, however, that little has been done about abortion in a practical sense. We are not going to save all, but I believe with the right action, as your folk in Kentucky are doing, a huge dent can be made.

In my area of Canada, aside from some counselling service, there is nothing,,I mean nothing,,available.

I think it is Wisconsin that adopted new policies on unwed mothers keeping children. They were allowed the first mistake, with assistance, but not the second.

We sure need more and those that start to keep at it.

Cheers, and thanks for that.

Jim

Jim, I have to say that I find the tone of your response very disappointing. I don't know about your country, but in America, the government has hindered the work of churches and other pro-life groups in their effort to prevent abortion and inculcate a culture of life.

Churches in general have done everything they can beyond "judging" that can be done to promote the welfare of mother and baby.

Do some research on what took place when the now-disgraced-governor Eliot Spitzer was the Attorney General in New York. His public denunciations of pro-lifers got him promoted to the governorship. New Yorkers celebrate the culture of death.

Yet in spite of being handcuffed by the government, churches and other charities have done an amazing job of both encouraging abstinence and caring for pregnant unweds.

Not only that, but thousands of Christian parents have pressed beyond the heartbreak of their teenage daughter's pregnancy and are helping them by financial support and raising the newborns if necessary.

And besides that, stigmatization serves an important social purpose as a deterrent to harmful behavior.

 

[Marcia]

I certainly don't support abortion as a viable option. My policy has akways been: Abortion if necessary, but not necessarily abortion. This takes care of life saving abortions and any other legitimate abortion.

Life-saving abortions (to save the mother's life) are so rarely needed, that I think they are less than 1% of all abortions performed.

What do you mean by "legitimate abortion?"

Here's some sobering stats published in 2006 on abortion. Notice that almost 1/4 of all pregnancies end in abortion:

In 2002, approximately 1.29 million pregnancies were terminated by abortion in the United States. Nearly fifty percent of pregnancies among American women are not planned; one half choose to have an abortion. Twenty-four percent of all pregnancies in the United States (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion. [SOURCE: Alan Guttmacher Institute, Facts on Induced Abortion In The United States, June 2006]

Here's why women choose abortion:

On average, women offer four reasons for choosing abortion: 75 percent say that having a baby interferes with work, school or other responsibilities; 75 percent say they cannot afford a child; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner

Source
http://www.christianliferesources.com/?/library/view.php&articleid=1203