Modernism

[salzer mtn]

My wife and I visited a Baptist church today we have never been into. I don't know what kind of Baptist, meaning SB, FB, IB or whatever. The preacher began to talk on how a lot of churches have went modern. During the singing and also the preaching a lot of clapping went on when the pastor said something that pleased the ear of the congregation. He also said the gospel was to be preached to the unconverted but the word was to be preached to the saved. It was a large church by my standard, around one hundred people in attendance. He spent a lot of time criticizing the people that were not there instead of thanking God for the ones that were there. Before the preaching, right after the plate was past and the announcements made he dismissed the young people and their teachers for children church and I noticed the young people that got up out of their seats to go to another building for children church was teenagers. IMO this whole so called worship service was modern, yet he preached against modernism in the church.

 

[Herald]

My wife and I visited a Baptist church today we have never been into. I don't know what kind of Baptist, meaning SB, FB, IB or whatever. The preacher began to talk on how a lot of churches have went modern. During the singing and also the preaching a lot of clapping went on when the pastor said something that pleased the ear of the congregation. He also said the gospel was to be preached to the unconverted but the word was to be preached to the saved. It was a large church by my standard, around one hundred people in attendance. He spent a lot of time criticizing the people that were not there instead of thanking God for the ones that were there. Before the preaching, right after the plate was past and the announcements made he dismissed the young people and their teachers for children church and I noticed the young people that got up out of their seats to go to another building for children church was teenagers. IMO this whole so called worship service was modern, yet he preached against modernism in the church.

There is absolutely no biblical mandate for separating ages in worship. I am not a supporter of the National Council of Family Integrated Churches (NCFIC), but I agree with them on families worshiping together. I do not care if a child is unable to understand the Word. They should be there with their parents. Expose children to the preached Word. You never know what a child may learn and when they will learn it.

P.S. I do make an exception for nursing infants or disruptive children.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Theological Modernism

"Modernism" is a term for attempts to bring Christianity into harmony with liberal philosophical thought and evolutionary biology. It is based on the same Protestant "Liberalism" that spread thru the continent in the late 1800's.

This modernism/liberalism influenced higher education and seminaries and spread to the US as men here were taught in European schools.

Modernism rejected traditionalism and mainline Christian beliefs. In the USA there was a great reaction to this "new" "modern" way of looking at God, religion, the bible, etc with the rise of Fundamentalism.

Modernism accepted:
>Biblical higher criticism (question inspiration/validity of the Bible)
>Theory of evolution
>A "historical" Jesus that reject the supernatural (miracles, the virgin birth, bodily resurrection)
>Jesus was divine in the sense that we see God in him in the same way though to a greater 'degree' as we see God in the lives of all holy men and women.
>Jesus' death on the cross was not to appease the wrath of God the Father but exemplifies the way in which God is present in human suffering.

In more recent development, liberal/modernist theology has added the "social gospel" to its evils.
>Ordination of women
>Acceptance of homosexuality and other perversions
>Legalization of abortion and euthanasia

Hope this helps.

The foolish preacher speaking against "modernism" probably has modern lights, a/c, sound systems, read glasses and a host of other inventions totally UNRELATED to what the word actually means!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is absolutely no biblical mandate for separating ages in worship. I am not a supporter of the National Council of Family Integrated Churches (NCFIC), but I agree with them on families worshiping together. I do not care if a child is unable to understand the Word. They should be there with their parents. Expose children to the preached Word. You never know what a child may learn and when they will learn it.

P.S. I do make an exception for nursing infants or disruptive children.

This is exactly what I saw at this Russian church today gentlemen. The. People came in as families and all prayed and sang together. In fact knowing I didn't speak Russian, a. Man was assigned to me as an interpreter so I understood what was going on and the pastor indicated I should come back anytime and they wood assign a translator. Needless to say, I was very impressed. Even got invited to their picnic next week. Nice people.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Modernism" is a term for attempts to bring Christianity into harmony with liberal philosophical thought and evolutionary biology. It is based on the same Protestant "Liberalism" that spread thru the continent in the late 1800's.

This modernism/liberalism influenced higher education and seminaries and spread to the US as men here were taught in European schools.

Modernism rejected traditionalism and mainline Christian beliefs. In the USA there was a great reaction to this "new" "modern" way of looking at God, religion, the bible, etc with the rise of Fundamentalism.

Modernism accepted:
>Biblical higher criticism (question inspiration/validity of the Bible)
>Theory of evolution
>A "historical" Jesus that reject the supernatural (miracles, the virgin birth, bodily resurrection)
>Jesus was divine in the sense that we see God in him in the same way though to a greater 'degree' as we see God in the lives of all holy men and women.
>Jesus' death on the cross was not to appease the wrath of God the Father but exemplifies the way in which God is present in human suffering.

In more recent development, liberal/modernist theology has added the "social gospel" to its evils.
>Ordination of women
>Acceptance of homosexuality and other perversions
>Legalization of abortion and euthanasia

Hope this helps.

The foolish preacher speaking against "modernism" probably has modern lights, a/c, sound systems, read glasses and a host of other inventions totally UNRELATED to what the word actually means!!

Yes thanks...that clarifys much.:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Out of curiosity...what can possibly be the issue with reading glasses? Maybe I don't want to know I'm guessing!

 

[Dr. Bob]

BTW, anyone out vacationing in the West is welcome to come by our church. We are a "Family Integrated" church - 2.5 hour service with so SS or nursery or children's church. Kids listen and learn and sing and praise and pray. If they need feeding, mom covers up. If they need diapers, thankfully most take them to the rest room but we've had the wafting smell of soiled pampers being changed on the floor of the room.

We meet in a hotel conference room (outgrew the home where we started) at minimal cost and are able to focus our finances on third world and inner-city mission outreach.

(yes we are 100% reformed, historic fundamental Baptists, and are huge mission supporters - just to clarify for those who still cannot grasp that our theology is the basis of our evangelistic outreach )

www.sovereigngracechurch.com

 

[quantumfaith]

We have different environments for children (Waumba Land) Pre Teens (Upstreet), Middle School (Transit) High School (Inside Out). There is no requirement that they attend these rather than worship with "adults". But I see only first time visitors doing that. I suppose we are "modern", but I am extremely grateful for how it works for us. We rarely go 2 weeks without the baptismal pool in use. God is using our church to reach MANY who would not consider a more traditional environment. Thank you God for my church and my pitifully small part of its ministry.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have different environments for children (Waumba Land) Pre Teens (Upstreet), Middle School (Transit) High School (Inside Out). There is no requirement that they attend these rather than worship with "adults". But I see only first time visitors doing that. I suppose we are "modern", but I am extremely grateful for how it works for us. We rarely go 2 weeks without the baptismal pool in use. God is using our church to reach MANY who would not consider a more traditional environment. Thank you God for my church and my pitifully small part of its ministry.

Naaa, modern is having a room with a Fooseball Table in it (its for the children) :thumbs:

 

[Dr. Bob]

People pride (sin) themselves by calling it "old time" or "old fashioned" religion.

Like thin black ties, shiny black pants and scuffed shoes of the 1950's was "spiritual". Anything else is "modern".

But they use glasses (modern invention), stoves (modern), a/c . .electricity . . p.a. systems . . internet . . ads . . and a thousand more modern inventions. Probably even have padded pews (but they DO have pews, and not evil padded stack chairs.

"Old Timey Camp Meeting" was advertised for a local group and I thought for sure they have a Billy Sunday wannabe or snake handler or preacher come in on horse back or in a 57 Chevy (depending on HOW "old timey" they wanted to be)

Sadly, they just had a screacher (part screamer, part preacher) yelling about the evils of today from "Hellywood" and the "Boob Tube" and short-haired/pants wearing backsliding heifers. Seriously. Called the women "heifers".

I am SO GLAD I am an evil 'modernist' those no-brainers.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

"Modernism" is a term for attempts to bring Christianity into harmony with liberal philosophical thought and evolutionary biology. It is based on the same Protestant "Liberalism" that spread thru the continent in the late 1800's.

This modernism/liberalism influenced higher education and seminaries and spread to the US as men here were taught in European schools.

Modernism rejected traditionalism and mainline Christian beliefs. In the USA there was a great reaction to this "new" "modern" way of looking at God, religion, the bible, etc with the rise of Fundamentalism.

Modernism accepted:
>Biblical higher criticism (question inspiration/validity of the Bible)
>Theory of evolution
>A "historical" Jesus that reject the supernatural (miracles, the virgin birth, bodily resurrection)
>Jesus was divine in the sense that we see God in him in the same way though to a greater 'degree' as we see God in the lives of all holy men and women.
>Jesus' death on the cross was not to appease the wrath of God the Father but exemplifies the way in which God is present in human suffering.

In more recent development, liberal/modernist theology has added the "social gospel" to its evils.
>Ordination of women
>Acceptance of homosexuality and other perversions
>Legalization of abortion and euthanasia

Hope this helps.

The foolish preacher speaking against "modernism" probably has modern lights, a/c, sound systems, read glasses and a host of other inventions totally UNRELATED to what the word actually means!!

Equating women's ordination with liberalism is a fallacy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Equating women's ordination with liberalism is a fallacy.

But Tom, I really need to know about the eye glasses as Im getting ready to get a pair....dont want to make any missteps you know!

 

[Dr. Bob]

Equating women's ordination with liberalism is a fallacy.

Ah, no. It IS one of the modern tenets of the largest organized group of theological modernist - the Anglican 'Modern Churchmen's Union' founded in 1898. Women as priests more specifically.

The Anglican contributor to Encarta said (in a related article) "The MCU has also campaigned on such issues as the legitimacy of marriage after divorce, women priests, the acceptance of homosexuality, and the legalisation of euthanasia."

 

[preachinjesus]

So many different definitions of "modernism."

Usually I think of it epistemically, that is the modernist (foundationalist) mindset of the present era that began with the Enlightenment.

There is the modernist-fundamentalist controversy of 100 years ago that Dr Bob described.

Apparently the preacher in the OP means "modern" as in contemporary or utilizing progressive methodologies.

So, I guess modernism is a shifting definition.

 

[Revmitchell]

Equating women's ordination with liberalism is a fallacy.

No its not

 

[salzer mtn]

My wife and I visited a Baptist church today we have never been into. I don't know what kind of Baptist, meaning SB, FB, IB or whatever. The preacher began to talk on how a lot of churches have went modern. During the singing and also the preaching a lot of clapping went on when the pastor said something that pleased the ear of the congregation. He also said the gospel was to be preached to the unconverted but the word was to be preached to the saved. It was a large church by my standard, around one hundred people in attendance. He spent a lot of time criticizing the people that were not there instead of thanking God for the ones that were there. Before the preaching, right after the plate was past and the announcements made he dismissed the young people and their teachers for children church and I noticed the young people that got up out of their seats to go to another building for children church was teenagers. IMO this whole so called worship service was modern, yet he preached against modernism in the church.

Some churches have went from a hardy amen to hand clapping I guess. The beatnicks of the fifties would snap their fingers and call out a "go daddy O" when music pleased them, I might try this some time. Better still I might light a candle and swoon and sway like being in a trance. The word amen is mentioned numerous times in the bible to affirm or express approval of what is being said but like I said, churches now clap their hands in approval, modernism. Throughout the pastors sermon you could hear giggles and out right laughter of the inserted jokes to entertain the congregation. Men and woman in the congregation were singled out and ask to stand by the pastor for applause for their accomplishments as a Christian. Last of all the call to the front, the call of man to man to come to the front to be admired by man as a true dedicated soldier of the cross. Clap clap clap.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Some churches have went from a hardy amen to hand clapping I guess. The beatnicks of the fifties would snap their fingers and call out a "go daddy O" when music pleased them, I might try this some time. Better still I might light a candle and swoon and sway like being in a trance. The word amen is mentioned numerous times in the bible to affirm or express approval of what is being said but like I said, churches now clap their hands in approval, modernism. Throughout the pastors sermon you could hear giggles and out right laughter of the inserted jokes to entertain the congregation. Men and woman in the congregation were singled out and ask to stand by the pastor for applause for their accomplishments as a Christian. Last of all the call to the front, the call of man to man to come to the front to be admired by man as a true dedicated soldier of the cross. Clap clap clap.

My brother from Tennessee, if I may make critical commentary, your sounding embittered. I know this because I get that way when I see degrading structures.....however you might be getting mad at me for having the chutzpa to bring this up.

I like you & I know your a good guy & this is why you are getting annoyed by it all. You would be apoplectic then if you saw the stuff going on up here in the northland....we are almost over run with Roman Catholics & not even the old style pietistic type I was raised with.

If you have some patience with my rambling, I liken it to Sodom & Nineveh--Which fate awaits us?

Sodom was destroyed. Nineveh was spares. Which fate awaits America? Have we passed the point of no return, or is there still hope for America? Are we capable of turning, as a people away from our evil ways & abandon our violent natural natures?

I can only see one scriptural solution of escaping the fate of Sodom & be spares as was Nineveh, its essential we as a people 1) act justly, 2)Love mercy & 3) walk humbly with our God.

God bless you

 

[SovereignMercy]

Salzer mn, come visit us. We're worth the drive from Spencer. http://www.chattanoogapbc.org We're biblical primitive baptists. We drive 60 miles from Spring City. The church has is at the base of Signal Mountain. Just take 127 S from Dunlap to the base of Signal Mountain, turn left at the light between Burger King and the fire station before Komatsu, then turn left at the T. We're a couple of blocks down on the left. I can send you some mp3 sermons if you're interested. We are family integrated our Sunday morning service starts at 10:30. We have a thirty minute a capella song service taking requests from the congregation, then one of us speaks for 15-20 minutes and then our pastor speaks until 12 or 12:15. Prayer requests are taken before the messages and afterwards and prayed for and at the end of the service people are invited to join the church and men are given an opportunity to share. We usually sing a song or two and shake hands. Every other Sunday we have a potprovidence meal together. We love it.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Ah, no. It IS one of the modern tenets of the largest organized group of theological modernist - the Anglican 'Modern Churchmen's Union' founded in 1898. Women as priests more specifically.

The Anglican contributor to Encarta said (in a related article) "The MCU has also campaigned on such issues as the legitimacy of marriage after divorce, women priests, the acceptance of homosexuality, and the legalisation of euthanasia."

Maybe you should study the Holiness and Pentecostal groups who have been ordaining women for a hundred years and then try to convince me and yourself that they are liberals.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

No its not

Maybe you should read my response to Dr. Bob.

And they're not the only conservatives who have always ordained women.

Women's ordination is not a conservative/liberal issue.