Conservatives do not ordain women. That group does not impress me. I am very aware of them. It is not a liberal/conservative issue, it is a scriptural issue.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Modernism
- Thread starter salzer mtn
- Start date
Conservatives do not ordain women. That group does not impress me. I am very aware of them. It is not a liberal/conservative issue, it is a scriptural issue.
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
The real issue.....
The real issue isn't whether or not they are "liberal"...but rather, whether or not they are SCRIPTURAL. Ordaining women to pulpit ministry is not now, nor ever will be scriptural. As I recall, the modern pentecostal/holiness/Charismatic movement had its beginnings in the teachings of Charles Parham(1873 - 1929) and then at the hands of one of his contemporaries, a woman preacher (Aimee Semple Mcpherson)(1890 - 1944). Being "scriptural" and being theologically "liberal" are not always the same thing.
Bro.Greg:saint:
The real issue isn't whether or not they are "liberal"...but rather, whether or not they are SCRIPTURAL. Ordaining women to pulpit ministry is not now, nor ever will be scriptural. As I recall, the modern pentecostal/holiness/Charismatic movement had its beginnings in the teachings of Charles Parham(1873 - 1929) and then at the hands of one of his contemporaries, a woman preacher (Aimee Semple Mcpherson)(1890 - 1944). Being "scriptural" and being theologically "liberal" are not always the same thing.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Simply put.....
Woman "preachers", "priests", "pastors", etc., are NOT Biblical/Scriptural. They are a "construct" of disobedient, rebellious, religious or theological groups who have no regard for the final authority of God or His Word. Neither are they "modernists" in the classic definition of that term.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Woman "preachers", "priests", "pastors", etc., are NOT Biblical/Scriptural. They are a "construct" of disobedient, rebellious, religious or theological groups who have no regard for the final authority of God or His Word. Neither are they "modernists" in the classic definition of that term.
Bro.Greg:saint:
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Modernism..a "classic" definition
With some help from David Cloud's Way of Life "Encyclopedia of the Bible", Modernism is "a label for an unbelieving, rationalistic approach to Christianity" and the Bible. It commomly results in a rejection of the Bible as the "Inspired" Word of God and a reliance more on the introduction of humanistic and evolutionary thinking. Jesus is commonly relegated to the role of being merely a "good" man rather than God the Son and there is no power in the atoning Blood of Christ. Modernism....in all it's humanist powerlessness is wicked and empty.
Anybody who would wish to "expand" or expound on this further is welcome.
Bro.Greg:saint:
With some help from David Cloud's Way of Life "Encyclopedia of the Bible", Modernism is "a label for an unbelieving, rationalistic approach to Christianity" and the Bible. It commomly results in a rejection of the Bible as the "Inspired" Word of God and a reliance more on the introduction of humanistic and evolutionary thinking. Jesus is commonly relegated to the role of being merely a "good" man rather than God the Son and there is no power in the atoning Blood of Christ. Modernism....in all it's humanist powerlessness is wicked and empty.
Anybody who would wish to "expand" or expound on this further is welcome.
Bro.Greg:saint:
But Tom, I really need to know about the eye glasses as Im getting ready to get a pair....dont want to make any missteps you know!
get a rimless one with that little chain you put behind you in case the glass falls off, or maybe settle for a rimless monocle instead. anything that don't look modern.
BTW, anyone out vacationing in the West is welcome to come by our church. We are a "Family Integrated" church - 2.5 hour service with so SS or nursery or children's church. Kids listen and learn and sing and praise and pray. If they need feeding, mom covers up. If they need diapers, thankfully most take them to the rest room but we've had the wafting smell of soiled pampers being changed on the floor of the room.
We meet in a hotel conference room (outgrew the home where we started) at minimal cost and are able to focus our finances on third world and inner-city mission outreach.
(yes we are 100% reformed, historic fundamental Baptists, and are huge mission supporters - just to clarify for those who still cannot grasp that our theology is the basis of our evangelistic outreach
www.sovereigngracechurch.com
Does that you mean that you a calvinistic/Dispy church? if so, God bless!
Last edited by a moderator:
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Impress you or not, they are conservative, and they do and always have ordained women. Your position is thus refuted.
And, yes, it is a scriptural issue, and these groups and other conservatives interpret the scripture on the matter differently from you.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
That is not only offensive but untrue, as well.
they are NOT obeying and heeding the word of God, as there are NO scriptures that support a woman ordained as Pastoral authority in a local body!
This statement reminds me of the threads with titles in them that include words like "irrefutable". Just claiming it does not make it so. But good luck with that.
I've heard of people clapping (we do sometimes, but not enough to make noise - just look the part), but I think those churches were called charismatic. I think they even smile sometimes during the service.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
You can rest your mind. That's one thing you want ever have to worry a thing about, is going anywhere with me.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
We even pat our feet and sing along in worship with the band. So uplifting.
I’ve come to learn that people are different. I like hymns. I like contemporary music that imparts theological truths and worship (for example, those that are simply psalms) – but this took awhile for me to appreciate (go figure, it’s just bible verses set to music I don’t particularly like). But I do tend to resist modern changes in church worship (which is, in some cases, a fault in my character). I like bulletins (I like to know what’s coming next). I like hymnals (you can read them when the sermon is dry – everyone else will think it’s a Bible).
Some “anti-modern” churches seem to go too far by advocating tradition over the church (ignoring the fact that their style of worship was at one time considered “modern” and controversial). But some modern churches go too far by ignoring the fact that culture is not without its own set of values and simply incorporating anything that sounds “cool” (or “hip” for you older guys – “groovy” for you 70’s folk).
What I have learned is to be careful in what I condemn and be careful in what I advocate.
Some “anti-modern” churches seem to go too far by advocating tradition over the church (ignoring the fact that their style of worship was at one time considered “modern” and controversial). But some modern churches go too far by ignoring the fact that culture is not without its own set of values and simply incorporating anything that sounds “cool” (or “hip” for you older guys – “groovy” for you 70’s folk).
What I have learned is to be careful in what I condemn and be careful in what I advocate.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Jon, I appreciate your wisdom and approach. I too was, for most of my time as a christian (almost 40 years) was in a more "traditional" oriented church complete with a bulletin and a minister of announcements.
I "tried" the contemporary worship as a result of a division in the church my wife and I had been in for many years. I NEVER thought "going in" that such newness, contemporary music, and a message delivered o.n big screen would be in the cards for me, however, I have become quite comfortable have grown more spiritually than I could ever have imagined. I realize, it is not for everyone, but our church has as its mission to intentionally reach out and seek those who are truly "unchurched", many who would never enter the doors of a "traditional" church. It can be at times, "messy", but "grace vs. truth" is indeed a messy tension in scripture.Someone has been reading from I Opinions. "Thou shalt not clap in church." Again, "good grief." You can't make this stuff up. Probably doesn't believe in having padded pews either. After all the first century church didn't have padded pews. Let's not forget the steeple, hymn books, and a pot belled stove. Didn't have those either. God forbid those things are for the modern church.
I think this is silly stuff to be smirking at when there are churches in this world preaching false gospels and marching people into hell by the millions. Go tell a Mormon to throw his Book of Mormon away and start reading his Bible instead of criticizing people who follow Christ for clapping in church. I would rather them clap and do whatever than start preaching the book of Morman and reading the Muslim book of evils.
Exactly.....Some folks are so worried about tradition that they miss the whole point. They would rather see people go to hell than give up their extra Biblical pet peeves. I remember a man telling me that he would leave the church if we ever started projecting words to hymns on the wall. How sad for him to be so closed minded. No way he cold back up his view point with God's word but no matter to him. To hell with Biblical truth, his personal opinion was more important. Or what about the ones who left because, gasp, we had a drummer join the church and started to exercise is musical talent in the church. Imagine, being so immature and closed minded to leave God's people over an extra Biblical point of view.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
The real reason churches have decided to leave off the amens and do the clapping thing, bring rock bands into the church, making it a point in each service to call out peoples name to honor them, childrens church, coffee lounges, game rooms is to draw more people, young and old a like. The simple church service of a couple of songs, someone read scripture and pray and listen to a gospel message is not good enough any more because all of the goats will get bored. Sheep are satisfied with feasting on the gospel. The goats have to have entertainment to chew on lest they become bored and quit, clap, clap, clap.