Monergism vs Synergism

[Saved-By-Grace]

You called TCassidy arrogant and then you type this sentence. This statement of your is classic arrogance. You have 37 total posts (at last count) and you elevate yourself as an authority? By your prose and the substance of your theological argument you prove that you have a lot to learn.



Of course, it has been broken because of sin. It's not because of his righteousness.



Really? I made my exegetical case. Are you capable of doing that? The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is John 16 has nothing to do with the spiritual condition of man. Matthew Henry writes:

The Spirit, by the word and conscience, is a reprover; ministers are reprovers by office, and by them the Spirit reproves.

Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry’s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (p. 2023). Peabody: Hendrickson.

One role of the Holy Spirit was to work through the Apostles in bringing a legal indictment against sin and those who are in their sins (note that Jesus was talking to the Apostles about what was to follow after His ascension). The Apostles would possess the legal right to act as Christ's representatives on earth and the Holy Spirit would be their bona fide.




Ignored it? Please. I was waiting for your response to the exegesis I provided. How are the spiritually dead in John 5:25 able to know the convicting work of the Holy Spirit while they are spiritually dead? Because it is the Holy Spirit doing the convicting. I point you back to my previous posts, which I know you have exhaustively dissected. I am not going to type of them again because I'm convinced I'm talking to a brick.

Tom, have fun with this guy.

I see that it is pointless to seriously engage with those of the "reformed" position, as their only desire is to keep peddling their "theology", and not really interested in what the Bible actually teaches! You guys always seem to quote from "reformed" writers, as thought they have the only "truth" there is to know! Well, this same guy, Matthew Henry, in his commentary on Luke's Gospel, says on the passage of the Lord Supper (chapter 22), that Judas, who betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ, did actually part-take of this Supper with the other 11. Luke's account is very important, because he makes sure to inform us that Jesus said the words, "this is My blood, shed for YOU" (plural in the Greek), which INCLUDED Judas! Why did not Jesus wait for Judas to have left the room, and then said this? Clearly shows that Jesus died also for those who are NOT "elect", and will end up in hell! But, of course you guys are experts in trying to twist these Truths! I mention this, as you jump to Henry to defend you!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I've been doing just that. Read back. God gave the 10 commandments, did He not? Christ summed up the commands of God in the Great Comand:
Matthew 22:37–40

[37] And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. [38] This is the great and first commandment. [39] And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [40] On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (ESV)

Now, if you, or anyone you know, has obeyed these commands, then you have an argument. If not, then we know that God commands what men are incapable of.

What needs to be understood here is the reason God gave the law in the first place. The apostle Paul gives us the reason. He says: "Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made. . ."

God is not unjust in His commands. We are sinful. It's not Him. It's us. In other words, God will not lower the bar because we are sinners. He will not permit murder because men are murderers. He will not say it's Okay to commit adultery because men are adulterers. His law is perfect. We are not perfect, and that is the point. The law reveals our imperfection. It demonstrates our weakness and need for Christ.

Now, do you agree that God commands what He knows men are incapable of, or not?

We know from the Book of Hebrews, that the Old Covenant, of which are the Ten Commandments, was indeed superseded by the New Covenant which is Jesus Christ. It is not that people could not keep these Commandments, but that they did not. God is not unreasonable to demand something that He knows is not possible. There is no where in the entire Bible, where God says that "repenting" is not a possibility for ALL sinners. That is why He does Command this in Acts, because He knows this is something that is in the DNA of each and every human being! The problem with the "reformed" camp, they will not accept this, as it will challenge their "theology"!

 

[thatbrian]

We know from the Book of Hebrews, that the Old Covenant, of which are the Ten Commandments, was indeed superseded by the New Covenant which is Jesus Christ. It is not that people could not keep these Commandments, but that they did not. God is not unreasonable to demand something that He knows is not possible. There is no where in the entire Bible, where God says that "repenting" is not a possibility for ALL sinners. That is why He does Command this in Acts, because He knows this is something that is in the DNA of each and every human being! The problem with the "reformed" camp, they will not accept this, as it will challenge their "theology"!

You keep avoiding these questions. I'll ask once more, and then I'll not respond to you again if not answered. Do you keep God's commands? Do you know anyone who has? If the answer to these questions is no, then do you concede that God has commanded what no man can accomplish? If the answer is, yes, then why did Christ have to die?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You keep avoiding these questions. I'll ask once more, and then I'll not respond to you again if not answered. Do you keep God's commands? Do you know anyone who has? If the answer to these questions is no, then do you concede that God has commanded what no man can accomplish? If the answer is, yes, then why did Christ have to die?

Firstly, no Christian is expected to keep any of the Ten Commandments (The Law), which Jesus Christ reduced to TWO, which indeed is possible to keep.

Secondly, yes people did keep the Ten Commandments, as did the Apostle Paul, "regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless." (Phil. 3:6).

Can you deal with my points?

 

[thatbrian]

Firstly, no Christian is expected to keep any of the Ten Commandments (The Law), which Jesus Christ reduced to TWO, which indeed is possible to keep.

Secondly, yes people did keep the Ten Commandments, as did the Apostle Paul, "regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless." (Phil. 3:6).

Can you deal with my points?

So, Jesus died for nothing, then. What a waste.

Is no Christian expected not to murder? Is no Christian expected not to commit adultery? Ar no Christian children expected to obey their parent? Are we to have other gods?! Are we to not love God? Is it Okay to covet your neighbor's wife???

When Jesus summed up the law and prophets. He did not reduce the law. He said that He did not come to abolish the law. He simply summed up the law. He did not change it. And, regardless of your own estimation, you do not live in obedience to it.

 

[InTheLight]

Have you obeyed God's law? Do you know anyone who has obeyed God's law? Does God command obedience to His law? Why did Christ die, if a man is capable of obedience to God's law? Again, where is this person who obeys God's law? If you think that you have obeyed His law (only perfection will do) why are you a Christian?

God commands obedience to His perfect law, and yes, He knows that no man is capable of that. Unless you are not a sinner, you believe the same.

Repentance is not a law. You're building another strawman here. Not surprised.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[Yeshua1]

So, Jesus died for nothing, then. What a waste.

Is no Christian expected not to murder? Is no Christian expected not to commit adultery? Ar no Christian children expected to obey their parent? Are we to have other gods?! Are we to not love God? Is it Okay to covet your neighbor's wife???

When Jesus summed up the law and prophets. He did not reduce the law. He said that He did not come to abolish the law. He simply summed up the law. He did not change it. And, regardless of your own estimation, you do not live in obedience to it.

NONE are ever saved by fully keeping the law of God, but all after salvation are still expected to obey those commandments...

 

[thatbrian]

NONE are ever saved by fully keeping the law of God, but all after salvation are still expected to obey those commandments...

I fully agree, but our friend can keep the law, so he has no need of a savior. That's my point.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I fully agree, but our friend can keep the law, so he has no need of a savior. That's my point.

You guys do write a load of rubbish! Just because you cannot honestly accept that God, by commanding that everyone everywhere repent of their sins, as it would mean that Jesus' death would have to have been for the entire human race, a fact even John Calvin accepted, you invent straw men to counter with foolish reasoning, that God somehow deceives us by making demands of us that He knows we cannot keep! And raise foolish arguments from the Old Testament law. And when I show from Scripture, like the Apostle Paul, that there are many who did keep the whole law, though the majority did not, you then make more foolish charges that I said I can keep the law! The problem with so called "reformed" and "Calvinists", is that they are too proud to admit that they could get things wrong, and rather make false attacks on others beliefs and twist the Bible to their own liking! They have the so called "Five Points of Calvinism", which is a fallacy, when Calvin himself never believed nor taught the Third Point, Limited Atonement. And, when this is pointed out, instead of humbly admitting they were wrong, will keep on holding on to something that is indeed false!

 

[thatbrian]

You guys do write a load of rubbish! Just because you cannot honestly accept that God, by commanding that everyone everywhere repent of their sins, as it would mean that Jesus' death would have to have been for the entire human race, a fact even John Calvin accepted, you invent straw men to counter with foolish reasoning, that God somehow deceives us by making demands of us that He knows we cannot keep! And raise foolish arguments from the Old Testament law. And when I show from Scripture, like the Apostle Paul, that there are many who did keep the whole law, though the majority did not, you then make more foolish charges that I said I can keep the law! The problem with so called "reformed" and "Calvinists", is that they are too proud to admit that they could get things wrong, and rather make false attacks on others beliefs and twist the Bible to their own liking! They have the so called "Five Points of Calvinism", which is a fallacy, when Calvin himself never believed nor taught the Third Point, Limited Atonement. And, when this is pointed out, instead of humbly admitting they were wrong, will keep on holding on to something that is indeed false!

You said this:

no Christian is expected to keep any of the Ten Commandments (The Law), which Jesus Christ reduced to TWO, which indeed is possible to keep.

Are you now saying something contrary?

Would you please explain to me how you are "saved by grace" if you insist that no grace is needed? If men are capable of obedience to the law, why did Christ die?

 

[TCassidy]

1 John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You said this:



Are you now saying something contrary?

Would you please explain to me how you are "saved by grace" if you insist that no grace is needed? If men are capable of obedience to the law, why did Christ die?

The First command is to love the Lord our God...the Second is to love our neighbor. These 2 Commands by Jesus ALL Christians are indeed expected to keep, and I know those who do! Are you saying that what Jesus here commands is not to be followed?

 

[thatbrian]

The First command is to love the Lord our God...the Second is to love our neighbor. These 2 Commands by Jesus ALL Christians are indeed expected to keep, and I know those who do! Are you saying that what Jesus here commands is not to be followed?

You haven't even managed to do so in this thread. . .

I'm saying if it were possible to keep the law, the incarnation and death of Christ was superfluous.

Also, the "Great Commandment" is not less than the 10 commandments. It is a summary of them.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You haven't even managed to do so in this thread. . .

I'm saying if it were possible to keep the law, the incarnation and death of Christ was superfluous.

Also, the "Great Commandment" is not less than the 10 commandments. It is a summary of them.

you have still not answered Acts 17:30

 

[TCassidy]

About a month ago we had a guy in here who claimed sinless perfection.

I wonder if our newcomer is his sock-puppet? He seems to be claiming the ability to perfectly keep the law is well within human ability in spite of the fact that God says it is impossible.

I think I'll look into this a little more.

 

[thatbrian]

About a month ago we had a guy in here who claimed sinless perfection.

I wonder if our newcomer is his sock-puppet? He seems to be claiming the ability to perfectly keep the law is well within human ability in spite of the fact that God says it is impossible.

I think I'll look into this a little more.

In any case, I think his screen name is the epitome of irony.

 

[thatbrian]

you have still not answered Acts 17:30

You haven't loved your neighbor (me), as you do yourself. In doing, or not doing, as the case may be, you've broken God's law in multiple ways, just today. God's law which is so "easy" to obey. . . Now what?

 

[thatbrian]

Before this thread come to a close, I wish to hear from those who claim to assist in their salvation. Those who synergistically work with God to save their souls.

My questions are many, but I'll limit them to three, for now.

1) What is the percentage of your part? I've heard everything from 1% to 50%.

2) What of those like the thief on the cross who literally hand his hands nailed to a cross of wood, so he could do nothing?

3) When are you certain that you've done enough? This would trouble me greatly if I held such a view.

 

[thatbrian]

In John 10 Jesus explains why some do not believe in Him. The reason He gives: "because you are not my sheep". Further, He explains that His sheep hear His voice. They (we) respond to His voice because we are His sheep, not the reverse.

John 10:25–30

[25] Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, [26] but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. [28] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. [29] My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [30] I and the Father are one.” (ESV)

He not only saves, but He first seeks.

 

[InTheLight]

Before this thread come to a close, I wish to hear from those who claim to assist in their salvation. Those who synergistically work with God to save their souls.

My questions are many, but I'll limit them to three, for now.

1) What is the percentage of your part? I've heard everything from 1% to 50%.

2) What of those like the thief on the cross who literally hand his hands nailed to a cross of wood, so he could do nothing?

3) When are you certain that you've done enough? This would trouble me greatly if I held such a view.