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More onlyisms
- Thread starter 37818
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alexander284
Well-Known Member
And the KJV only crowd tends to adversely affect the image of those who are KJV preferred (who I greatly respect, admire, and appreciate).
Divides believers? That depends on how you look at it. It actually unites believers who believes the Bible is the word of The Lord. It divides the remainder of religious folk into a hundred different units. Example; One could quote Col 1:18 and say exactly what it says from the KJV and there is a man here who would come back with quotes from the NET and maybe the NASB and another one or two and disagree with the KJV. and think he is the smartest man in the room.
One thing I am absolutely sure of: the doctrines of God comes from God through his words that he has given to us and those who have 100 variations of what they call his words are absolutely not united in doctrine in any stretch of the imagination. After all, God does say they are his words and if someone danes to present different words and call them God's words, they had better know what they are doing. God instructs his church to say the same things. There is no difference in the error of following men like was happening in 1 Corinthians 3 than following translations like is prevalent today.
If God sent prophets to tell us that he was going to send a great revival and many in the world would be saved just before he returned for his church, and if he said men would be more enlightened and godly during the days leading up to the end, then I would say the 100 or so new English translations have done his job. They are all less than 150 years old.
However, the scriptures teach just the opposite. They teach the exact apostasy that many here practice and your 100 or so new English bibles are a tool in the hands of the adversaries because they know that those who do not have a Bible with authority can be infiltrated and led astray and amount to nothing. We have recent examples on the "united" Methodists, who just had a denominational split over the grossest of subjects, and the Southern Baptists.
I have read the New Testament scriptures Jesus Christ is not coming back because the church is flourishing, he is coming back because it is not. Here is just one thing he says will be happening at the end;
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Jesus said the above words about the Father. They are his words.
Change and paraphrase the words of God 100 times and they are no longer the words of God. They are the words of someone else.
I identify with this church;
2Th 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
What is the word of the Lord that is preached unto you? Here is the answer.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I think the eternal God can write his word in a book that he can keep pure forever if he wants to. I cannot see him needing to give us a hundred different ones and make us wonder which is best.
37818
Well-Known Member
So exactly what is your issue in regards to Colossians 1:18?
Does this, in it's last paragraph summarize your point?
My point is that many different translations with many different words generates many different doctrines and creates divisions, the exact opposite of the unity in speech that God says he desires from the saints. The Baptist gent was an example on another thread and I referenced his treatment of Col 1:18.
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
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All (and likely even most) believers who believe the Bible is the word of the Lord are not KJV-only so you fail to show that human, non-scriptural KJV-only teaching unites believers.
KJV-only advocates do not demonstrate that they are sound and true Bible believers when they use arguments that involve fallacies, when they advocate opinions and traditions of men over scriptural truths, and when they disobey scriptural commands by bearing false witness against believers who disagree with human KJV-only reasoning.
You do not prove that having different translations is the exclusive or even the primary cause for the different doctrines.
Most of the same different doctrines were taught from the KJV for many years.
You are twisting my point. That was not my claim and I most certainly did not use terminology like non scriptural KJV-only teaching.
Why are you bringing that up here where no one has done those things? I know you well enough to know that you rarely quote God from any translation, good or bad. This tells me you are not here to defend God's honor and reputation. I can only guess why you are here because I cannot know what motivates you but I know you love to argue one subject only. I have never seen you comment on any other subject in all the years I have seen your name appear on Christian forums. This seems like a maniacal compulsion.
You are like a two hundred pound man with a one hundred and ninety five pound hand. You are not balanced in your parts.
Thanks for making a good case against 100 new bibles. They have changed the minds of no one, so why not just settle on one bible to not believe? The church has been infiltrated and leavened with corruption. It was prophesied by Jesus Christ himself and explained by the apostle Paul. Check this out;
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
The objective of the woman is finished when the whole is leavened. It has been a rather slow process as we count time.
It is interesting to me that this woman shows up in the fourth of a series of seven parable with the leaven of corruption and false doctrine that will reach world wide to Shem, Ham, and Japheth while a wicked woman named Jezebel reveals herself in the fourth church of the seven churches of revelation and gets more ink, 12 verses, than any of the other 6 churches.
I am just saying that when we get to the end of this thing we will not be able to plead ignorance, except for willful ignorance. God gives eyes to see to those who wish to see, The attack of the enemy is on the word of God at his start and continues to be so to this very day.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Who are these guys?
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
This is in the context of the exaltation of the scriptures.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Mr 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
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You certainly do not use the terms that would accurately describe your posts and what they advocate.
My term "non-scriptural KJV-only teaching" accurately describes the human, non-scriptural claims that you make for the KJV and the accusations that you make against the word of God translated into present-day English.
In some of your posts, you make accusations or use arguments that involve use of fallacies such as the guilt-by-association fallacy, the fallacy of false dilemma, the fallacy of composition, the fallacy of begging the question, the fallacy of special pleading, post hoc fallacy, etc.
You may deceive you yourself into believing your non-true and non-scriptural claims, but you fail to make any positive, clear, consistent, sound, true, scriptural case from the Scriptures for exclusive claims for only one English Bible translation--the KJV.
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Since the word of God which liveth, abideth, and endureth for ever existed before 1611, it would mean that the word of the Lord is not dependent upon the making of the KJV in 1611. The word of God is not bound to the textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611.
The word of God had been translated into English many years before 1611. The pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the 1611 KJV is the word of God translated into English. The KJV is not the only English Bible translation.
You are rambling as usual and do not know what you are talking about. The word of God and the word of the Lord are two different expressions that deserves our consideration. When Peter says one must be born again of incorruptible seed he is speaking of a person, who was introduced to us in Gen 3:15 and promised to Abraham in Gen 12. In Lk 18 and other places we are told the seed is the word of God. We know that life does not occur unless two different people are involved and the life giving seed comes from the Father. The seed must be in the body and when a person is born again a real live person is implanted in the body. The life is in the seed. Peter said the word of God is alive in 1 Peter 1:23.
We know all this by observing the process in the physical realm but the physical realm is just the type of the spiritual. The implantation of life occurs in the spiritual arena when one hears the gospel of Jesus Christ, AND BELIEVES. It is at this point that conception takes place and the word of the Lord, Jesus Christ, eternal life, is given in that person, never to depart no matter what the circumstances. Jesus Christ in person is equal with the word of God as the seed. He is the word of the Lord who must occupy the body for life to occur.
1 Peter1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (the Father)
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
One can say what he will, but if one is saved from his sins through the blood of Jesus Christ, and if Christ lives in him, it will be because he has believed the word of God the Father.
1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he (God the Father) would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
God is not speaking to us audibly. He is not sending prophets and visions or writing things across the sky for us to see. He speaks to us through his word, the scriptures. We, each one of us, will decide if we believe his words or not. Our salvation depends on believing him. It is he who is the judge of all the earth and has power to justify or condemn. I read the comments of Baptists on this forum and there are not a handful here who believes what God says.
If I were the devil and hated humanity and wanted them to perish, I would confuse the words of God with substitution and I would dimmish the authority of the word of God in the minds of men. If salvation required believing the words, I would do all I could to keep that from happening.
There are not more salvations in the world today with 100 English Bibles, there are less. You are on the wrong side with the majority. The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. They will heap to themselves teachers to teach them what they want to hear. They will not believe God but their teachers.
Lu 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
There are reasons to suspect this modern philosophy that gives us all these Bibles with different words that claim they are the word of God. I reject it.
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37818
Well-Known Member
That is what it seems to others, that you do, by evidence of your often long posts.
Well everyone has their faults. Well, almost every one. I doubt we could agree on yours.
You do not endure sound Bible doctrine since you choose to deceive yourself with unsound, modern, human, non-scriptural KJV-only teaching that is not stated nor taught in Scripture. You advocate and follow human KJV-only opinions. You reject the truth when you are advocating opinions of men.
Your personal preference for the KJV is not Bible doctrine anymore than my personal preference for the KJV is. Your personal human choice to esteem the KJV above other English Bible translation does not make you spiritually superior.
The KJV is the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English and in the same sense (univocally) as post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV are the word of God translated into English.
Two things here:
1) I got it on the 10,112th time you said it back in 2010 and,
2) I think you need to learn some different adjectives. You have worn those out.
JD731, the truth does not wear out.
Since you have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, true, scriptural case for your KJV-only opinions, my accurate adjectives soundly describe your opinions.
What better adjectives would describe your opinions (that are not stated in the Scriptures) concerning the KJV?
Since you have not presented any positive, clear, consistent, sound, true, scriptural case for your KJV-only opinions, my accurate adjectives soundly describe your opinions.
What better adjectives would describe your opinions (that are not stated in the Scriptures) concerning the KJV?
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37818
Well-Known Member
Maybe. But then if it was important enough you might point it out. Especially if it was relevant to this discussion.
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he has an unscriptural and unproven opinion that The continual translation and paraphrasing and editing of the eye witness accounts of chosen apostles and prophets into the English language is a biblical doctrine.
I have read and studied the whole book. This philosophy and practice is described by the apostle who was given the charge to reveal the doctrines of the church, called the mysteries of God, Paul, as an end times practice of apostasy along with several other end time practices of turning from the truth.
Proving that God is not involved with translating the Bible into another language other than Hebrew and Greek does not make him right in his opinion. He still has the responsibility to prove his own teaching from the scriptures to demonstrate that he is speaking for God, something he has heretofore not attempted.
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