Mormon and Jehovah's witness

[Darron Steele]

No, I'm not liar. Never said you said those things yourself, but plenty have.

Thank you.

I simply stated that when PEOPLE make these comments then I feel I need to defend them.

Fine, correct false attributions of views -- with my blessing.

But do not proselytize with false pretenses. If an assertion is not true, do not make it.

As far a being Anglican Rite. I am and will not change.

I did not ask you to. If you are a Christian, and your local Catholic congregation meets your needs, I see no reason for you to leave.

You are right, I cannot change my denomination on my profile but have explained this on past postings. Ask DHK, he accused me being deceptive and then apologized. You apparently will not.

I do not see where DHK apologized to you.

As for me, I will not apologize for making an accurate statement. Your words did not meet your actions, and when you posted a "little known fact" that was contrary to everything I have read about Third World Pentecostalism, it was very suspicious. You were called to substantiate it, and did a diversion. Even now, you have refused to substantiate it.

You would get an apology if I owed you one, but I will not give an apology where I do not see one is owed. On this matter, you will not get one from me. I will let the unsubstantiated statement go if it would be an acceptable `olive branch.' I also forgive your misrepresentations of my posts.

I attend a Catholic Church, worship according to the Anglican Rite. Say the the Anglican Daily Office (daily devotions for you Baptist),

I am not Baptist, as should be clear by now.

I do thank you for speaking up for Catholics when they are smeared and treated as second class Christians. I do agree with you on a LOTS of your contributions.

Thank you.

I believe a religious group -- Christian or not -- should be criticized solely on the basis of its real precepts and practices.

It is an eyesore to see Catholics smeared for views and practices they do not have. I have appreciated the trouble you have taken to address the smears against Catholics.

 

[DHK]

DHK: How am I proselytizing to defend what the church teaches. I have not ONCE encouraged another Christian to leave their church and join mine. Maybe in jest. I attend a Freewill Baptist Church each week and have had no one accuse me of proselytizing. I appreciate your warning but see a vast difference in what other Catholics have attempted and what I'm doing. Am I wrong.

This is not a simple defense of Catholic doctrine. It is a crusade--the same thing that others were banned for:

What I'm asking is that you might take those narrow blinders off your eyes and read what others who have been in ministry in the Baptist church for years and have found that the real truth is found in the teachings and of the Bible as passed on by Bible believing Catholics down from the earliest times of the Apostolic Church (The Catholic Church of course!)

TRY THE BOOKS OF SCOTT HAHN!! ONCE ONE OF YOU AND THEN REALIZED THE HOLY SPIRIT TOOK THE BLINDERS OFF!

 

[Darron Steele]

This was more direct:

...STUDY WHAT THAT WOULD ENTAIL!!

THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH AS PRACTICED IS FROM THE TIME OF PETER (PETROS)

Emphasis was original.

 

[lori4dogs]

This is not a simple defense of Catholic doctrine. It is a crusade--the same thing that others were banned for:

DHK, I was relating my experience. I am by NO means suggesting that you or other Christians on this board are not BORN AGAIN. I would not be welcome to fellowship at our local Freewill Baptist Church if I did. I simply stated that I have become convinced by the writings of Catholic teaching.

Darron Steele obviously did not read the post when you suggested that I joined as Catholic and simply stated that I was Anglican in church affiliation to bypass the 'ban' on Catholics participating on this board. As you know, followed this board for years before joining and the 'ban' was applied. You did apologize that were a wrong assumption.

I am a born again Catholic Christian first and foremost. I trust Jesus died for my sins on Calvary, rose from the grave, sits at the right hand of the Father and will come again. I trust that He washed me clean of my sins by His most precious blood. I have NO doubt that you are also a born again Christian who is passionate about your faith and by virtue of the fact that you witness on this board evidence that.

 

[DHK]

DHK, I was relating my experience. I am by NO means suggesting that you or other Christians on this board are not BORN AGAIN. I would not be welcome to fellowship at our local Freewill Baptist Church if I did. I simply stated that I have become convinced by the writings of Catholic teaching.

You say you were relating your experience.
Let's see about your experience:

What I'm asking is that you might take those narrow blinders off your eyes and read what others who have been in ministry in the Baptist church for years and have found that the real truth is found in the teachings and of the Bible as passed on by Bible believing Catholics down from the earliest times of the Apostolic Church (The Catholic Church of course!)

You are asking or advising, those on the board (who apparently are blind to the truth because they haven't accepted Catholic teaching) and are telling them to read the writings of others who have turned to the Catholic faith, which you call "real truth."

This is not your testimony. This is proselytizing! It has nothing to do with a salvation experience. It has nothing to do with a testimony of any kind. It is advertising and promotion for the Catholic Church--a strong invitation for those on the board (if not a taunting) for them to turn to Catholicism. You have gone too far. You have over-stepped your bounds. Can't you see that??
You also assert that the RCC is the keeper of the Bible as passed on by Bible-believing Catholics from the earliest times of the Apostolic Church (The Catholic Church of course).
This is not a defense of your faith. It is a promotion of the RCC without any evidence. You can say the moon is made of green cheese. That has as much truth as the statement you made. You can provide no evidence for either, and have not provided evidence for either. Advertising for another religion is not permitted.

TRY THE BOOKS OF SCOTT HAHN!! ONCE ONE OF YOU AND THEN REALIZED THE HOLY SPIRIT TOOK THE BLINDERS OFF!

Am I so naive to accept that this is your testimony? Seriously?
Shall I tell you out-rightly that this is a bold faced lie! It is not part of your testimony. Why are you telling lies?
This is advertising Scott Hahn's books, obviously.
It is again the proselytizing of others by promoting the RCC works of the apologists of the RCC. Again, this is not allowed on this board.

Rethink what you have said; how you have misrepresented what you said in this post. You are posting against the rules.

 

[Marcia]

Unfortuanalely, the Baptist, Catholic, Anglican, etc. chuches in Canada are dead and dying. No evangelism.

Our Catholic Churches here are bursting at the seems, spilling out into the streets and people coming to know the Lord ans Savior. Sorry what is happening up in your way.

BTW. Baptist churches are closing here and re-opening as Coptic Churches.

The Catholic Church is the fastest growing church in the World.

Apparently, not true in Latin America.

For the Catholic church hierarchy in the Vatican, Latin America has changed from the "Continent of Hope" to the continent of concern, as followers are leaving the church in such large numbers that it could lead to the collapse of Catholicism within a decade and a half.

Although Latin America is still home to almost half of the 1.07 billion Catholics in the world today, numerous studies indicate that their numbers are declining throughout the region.

The loss of Catholic faithful "is a painful reality that calls out dramatically to us as pastors of Latin American churches," said Cipriano Calderón, a member of the Vatican Congregation for Bishops and former president of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America.

In Brazil, where there are more Catholics than in any other country in the world - roughly 100 million, out of a total population of close to 180 million - close to half a million followers are leaving the Catholic church every year.

Something similar is happening in Mexico, the country with the second largest number of Catholics. Roughly 88 percent of its 102 million inhabitants today identify themselves as Catholics, revealing a decline of almost 10 percent compared to the mid-20th century.

In Colombia, only two out of every three people profess themselves Catholics today, when almost the entire population was Catholic in the 1950s.

The phenomenon is particularly marked in Guatemala, where almost one-third of the country's 12 million inhabitants have left the Catholic church, and most of those leaving have converted to evangelical Protestantism.

Meanwhile, 71.3 percent of Costa Rica's 4.2 million people declare themselves to be Catholic today, when just one year ago, a full 77 percent professed this faith, according to a survey conducted by the department of mathematics at the public University of Costa Rica. <more>

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=25966

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Just to clarify for Lori, in Christian parlance, a "testimony" is an account of how you were saved. This includes an acknowledge of your sinfulness before you were saved, howyou came to be convicted of your sin by the Holy Spirit, how you came to realize that you had to repent of your sins and trust in Christ's atonement (alone) on the cross on your behalf for your salvation, and what led you to repent and to trust in Christ's atonement for your salvation.

At no time in any of Lori's posts do any of these things appear, so I don't see how she can claim that she is only offering her "testimony".

Likewise, to say that you are "defending" your beliefs entails stating precisely what it is that you believe, giving rational, fact based reasons why you believe it, and answering objections to your beliefs in a rational and fact based way.

Again, at no time in any of Lori's posts do any of these things appear, so I don't see how she can reasonable claim that she is only "defending" her beliefs.

All I see in her posts is that, as DHK has already demonstrated, that she is here only to criticize Baptist/Christian beliefs and to promote Catholicism.

For the record, I have no problem with a legitimate critique of Baptist/Christian beliefs. But to come to a Baptist message board where you are a guest and insult and attack our beliefs, while promoting a false religion is just wrong and there is no excuse for it.

 

[lori4dogs]

I have been polite and charitable. I have read post where you have been insulting to Thinkingstuff, called him/her a FOOl. Even the DHK said it was uncalled for.

BTW, I am a sinner saved by grace, just like you.

 

[lori4dogs]

Apparently, not true in Latin America.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=25966

Marcia, as long as people are trusting in Jesus for their salvation and not leaving the Catholic Church to become Muslim, etc. WONDERFUL!

People repent of their sins and put their trust in His atonement in Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, and even some Lutheran churches. Sometimes without the help of evangelist!

 

[lori4dogs]

Actually, I began reading the testimony of the former Southern Baptist pastor Michael Cumbie, who converted to the Catholic Church in 2001 and then started following the BB.
I have read Scott Hahn, Steve Wood, Karl keating and other converts but do NOT advocate that people on this board read them so that they might be converted. I do think people maybe should broaden their study past their own denominational bais.

I read Charles Stanley, Shelby Spong, Mathew Fox, Bonnel Spencer, Paul Moore, etc. I certainly don't agree with them theologically but I do appreciate understanding how they arrive at their positions and give it serious consideration. I am by no means a narrow-minded proselyte for the Catholic Church. I have not mis-represented myself as an Anglican as I was an Anglican when I joined and only became a member of Holy Family Catholic Church after the recent Pastoral Provision provided by the Vatican.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Marcia, as long as people are trusting in Jesus for their salvation and not leaving the Catholic Church to become Muslim, etc...

What's the difference?

I have read Scott Hahn, Steve Wood, Karl keating and other converts but do NOT advocate that people on this board read them so that they might be converted. I do think people maybe should broaden their study past their own denominational bais.

What's the point of reading Karl Keating when I've already cited Karl Keating and you said that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[Victorious]

Wow!

Great job, JohnDeereFan! Truth, truth, truth.

I used to converse/debate Matt Slick many years ago on the issue of paedobaptism. Nice guy and good site. I just spit out the pits.

 

[Alive in Christ]

From waaaaaay back on page 1...

"I have found that asking what a Witness what their take is on St. Thomas confession of 'my Lord and my God' would be. Haven't got much of an explanation."

I have brought Thomas's confession up several times with JW's and all I ever get is...

"I'll have to look into that", or "I'll get back with you on that", etc etc.

They never do.

 

[DHK]

BTW, I am a sinner saved by grace, just like you.

You have been privileged. You have been given a lot of light that you will someday be held accountable for. So here is the choice that you have to make.
1. Either you are a sinner saved by grace and if honest must come to a frank admission that the salvation by works of the RCC is heresy, another gospel, which Paul condemns as "cursed." (Gal.1:8)

or, 2. You are not saved at all, but are deceived into thinking you are. Thus you have swallowed RCC doctrine as they redefine terminology for you. You believe in a gospel of works. It is a gospel that condemns people to hell. You cannot have it both ways. You must choose between works and grace. Works will send one to hell. Grace saves. "For by grace are ye saved through faith" (Eph.2:8) That is the only way of salvation. It is not of works. One cannot be saved by works. If you believe that you have been deceived.

Here is the Scripture you need to meditate on and fully understand:

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

--It is either grace or works. You can't have both. The Catholic Church does not teach a gospel of grace.

 

[lori4dogs]

What's the difference?



What's the point of reading Karl Keating when I've already cited Karl Keating and you said that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

Please refresh me about what I said about Karl Keating. I think he is a good apologist but I'm not sure I agree with everything he writes.

After reading over this thread I have to agree that I have come off much too defensive and somewhat arrogant in my posts. Please accept my apology. I have always wanted to contribute without being antagonistic or condescending.

I'm sure you can tell I am no theologian or biblical scholar. I have been a born again Christian for many years now and have had my life transformed through Christ. I trust in Him and Him only to save me.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Lori4dogs...

1st of all, I too am a dog person. I only have one dog, but I couldnt imagine my life without her. :thumbs:

Regarding the topic, you said...

You are just SO wrong! Catholicism is not a cult. It preaches Christ crucified, died and is coming again. It preaches that through faith in him (Romans 10:9) one can be saved and become a child of God.

No. YOU are the one who is wrong. The Catholic Church is a false christian organisation. It is no less problematic than the Jehovahs Witnesses, the Mormons and many many other false cults.

The Catholic Church is overflowing with blasphemies, idolatries, and wickedness.

The Catholics practice pure goddess worship towards their false "Mary"

The Catholic Mass is hellishly idolatrous.

The Catholic priesthood is a scandalous mockery of true ministers of God.

The teaching magesterium is a legalistic "death grip" on the churches "lay" people, who are the docile VICTIMS of its wickedness.

I was a Catholic for the 1st 24 years of my life and I NEVER ONE TIME heard the true saving gospel. If I had I would not have been so supremely impacted by it when evangelicals shared it with me later.

It is a cultic group, Lori. Are their *some* saved people in Catholicism? Of course there are. On the fringes...and they certainly will not be *fully emersed* in catholicism.

Come out of her, Lori. I beg you. Come out of her. They proclaim a false and perverted gospel, and they worship a counterfiet Jesus...along with the Goddess, of course.

This is no small matter, Lori. Come to your senses. Come out of her.

 

[dcorbett]

You make a BIG assumption and a FALSE accusation.

I WAS an Anglican when I joined this Board. After spending much time reading the debates by the Catholic contributors to this board I became a Catholic with NO regrets. I never pretended to be an Anglican. I WAS one.
I am not a liar and resent your saying I am one.

I joined the BB years ago before the Catholics got the better of the Baptist and were banned for 'proselytizing'. BTW, I am not the only person who changed their denominational affiliation form Baptist, Anglican, and so on to the true faith.
Much easier to bash someones faith when they aren't allowed to defend it.

And what do you believe about infant baptism? And who is the head of your church? You are not Catholic unless you believe baptism can save you and that the Pope is the head of the church.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee........You could DROWN in the baptistry and go to hell, Lori. And the Pope is a travesty, a lost man on his way to hell because JESUS is the head of the real church.

 

[lori4dogs]

And what do you believe about infant baptism? And who is the head of your church? You are not Catholic unless you believe baptism can save you and that the Pope is the head of the church.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee........You could DROWN in the baptistry and go to hell, Lori. And the Pope is a travesty, a lost man on his way to hell because JESUS is the head of the real church.

There are references in the New Testament of whole households being baptized. My understanding is that included the everyone including slaves and their children. I would have a hard time believing that no infants were present.


1 Cor 1:16
Acts 16:15
Acts 16:30-32

Acts 2:37-38
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?" Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit."

It is clear from reading ECF's that infant baptism was practiced from the earliest times in the Church.

The pope would be the first to say that Jesus Christ is the head of the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[Revmitchell]

There are references in the New Testament of whole households being baptized. My understanding is that included the everyone including slaves and their children. I would have a hard time believing that no infants were present.


1 Cor 1:16
Acts 16:15
Acts 16:30-32

Acts 2:37-38
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?" Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit."

It is clear from reading ECF's that infant baptism was practiced from the earliest times in the Church.

An absurd assumption that has no foundation. Nothing here indicates infant baptism. Practicing eisegesis does not lend to credibility.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Please refresh me about what I said about Karl Keating. I think he is a good apologist but I'm not sure I agree with everything he writes.

I cited his words as evidence that Catholicism teaches that Purgatory is for the expiation of sin, and you stated that he was wrong.

I'm sure you can tell I am no theologian or biblical scholar.

Yeah, that's pretty obvious. Your lack of understanding of the Bible and of elementary Christian doctrine, particularly for someone who keeps claiming to have been a Christian for "many years now", is pretty appalling.

I have been a born again Christian for many years now

Then why are you in a false religion?