Moses or Christ? Paul's Reply to Dispensational Error

[SovereignGrace]

@Ascetic X


And where does this imputed righteous of faith come from? Or better yet, whose righteousness is this?

@Ascetic X

 

[KenH]

Read Isaiah again and notice how many times the LORD declared about gentile nations, “then they will know that I am the LORD God."

Did you mean the book of Ezekiel? When I search in the KJV for the phrase you put in quote marks, I get several references to Ezekiel, but none for Isaiah.

 

[KenH]

The Old Testament is loaded with the missiological work of Israel, including when they were in Egyptian and Babylonian captivity. The story of Jonah is a shining example.

There are isolated examples of Gentiles in the Old Testament being regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and given the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works, such as Rahab and Ruth. However, I see nothing in the history of ancient Israel where they made it their mission to spread the gospel of Christ anywhere, certainly not in North America, or South America, or Australia, or Russia, or China.

In other words, ancient Israel was never commanded to go all over the entire globe and spread the Law of Moses and its over 600 commandments and laws and instructions, much less to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Ascetic X

And where does this imputed righteous of faith come from? Or better yet, whose righteousness is this?

Care to address this?

 

[Aaron]

There actually is a difference between Israel and the church. That’s why we have an Old Testament and a New Testament.

No, we have an OT and a NT because the OT was fulfilled in the NT. The OT is church history.

 

[Aaron]

Your argument leads to this, the NT is not for the Jews today.

Yup. The Gospel is unto all people. I've created a pamphlet to be passed around in Israel™, but no takers yet.

 

[Ascetic X]

There are isolated examples of Gentiles in the Old Testament being regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and given the gifts of faith in Christ and repentance of dead works, such as Rahab and Ruth. However, I see nothing in the history of ancient Israel where they made it their mission to spread the gospel of Christ anywhere, certainly not in North America, or South America, or Australia, or Russia, or China.

In other words, ancient Israel was never commanded to go all over the entire globe and spread the Law of Moses and its over 600 commandments and laws and instructions, much less to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15)

How Israel was a light to all nations and salvation unto the end of the earth is a topic worth exploring.

But the Word did spread through various means.

When captive in Babylon, the Law reached new audiences. The story of Jonah and also the Magi from Persia coming to honor the child Jesus are examples of this outreach.

The Bible is very clear about this purpose of God.

Isaiah 49:6

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

[KenH]

Isaiah 49:6

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Which, starting with the Day of Pentecost after Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, was done throughout the world, not just in isolated instances as previously, such as, for example, Rahab and Ruth.

Acts 13:46-49
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying,

I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles,
That thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yup. The Gospel is unto all people. I've created a pamphlet to be passed around in Israel™, but no takers yet.

View attachment 13996

Well there is one on here who when you confront them with the fatal blow to their argument, they refuse to answer, and go MIA, go radio silent.

 

[Ben1445]

Yup. The Gospel is unto all people. I've created a pamphlet to be passed around in Israel™, but no takers yet.

View attachment 13996

If I’m looking for something to pass out in Israel, I won’t start by asking a “conspiracy theorist™.”

Also I would find something with people on the cover is wearing some clothes. I wouldn’t want people to think I’m advertising for their queer celebrations.

 

[Marooncat79]

You are certainly joking. There is an abundance of evidence throughout the Old Testament that a huge purpose of Israel was to be a lesson to the entire world. There is no way anyone could miss this.

The Old Testament is loaded with the missiological work of Israel, including when they were in Egyptian and Babylonian captivity. The story of Jonah is a shining example.

God’s promises of blessing through Abraham and his seed—both the plural “succession of representatives” and Christ who is “both part of that succession and the final consummation” of it —reveal God’s missionary intent. Similarly, God’s self-revelation at the time of the exodus ensured that the Egyptians would “know” him and that his name would “be proclaimed in all the earth” (Exod 9:14, 16).

The “mixed multitude” (Exod 12:38) that joined the exodus indicates that many Egyptians came to know Yahweh as he overthrew their gods. By establishing his covenant with Israel and setting them apart as his treasured possession, a universal ethical standard, a kingdom of prophets and priests, and a holy nation (Exod 19: 4–6), God intended that they actively represent him to the nations.

Read Isaiah again and notice how many times the LORD declared about gentile nations, “then they will know that I am the LORD God.”

The fact that the Magi from Persia came to worship the young Jesus is an example of how Israel was a light to the gentile world.

The book of Hebrews says nothing about Israel being given a 40 year probationary period.

I wish i could like this 5,000 times

 

[Aaron]

If I’m looking for something to pass out in Israel, I won’t start by asking a “conspiracy theorist™.”

Also I would find something with people on the cover is wearing some clothes. I wouldn’t want people to think I’m advertising for their queer celebrations.

Here's another:

 

[kyredneck]

There is an abundance of evidence throughout the Old Testament that a huge purpose of Israel was to be a lesson to the entire world. There is no way anyone could miss this.

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

 

[Ascetic X]

Here's another:

View attachment 13999

What does this mean?

 

[Aaron]

What does this mean?

It means the OT came to end. The King of the Jews nullified circumcision and joined the NT church...His church.

 

[Aaron]

There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.

One covenant.

 

[Ascetic X]

It means the OT came to end. The King of the Jews nullified circumcision and joined the NT church...His church.

So this tract states on the cover that Christ became a Christian?

Makes no sense. Christian means Christ in you, being a follower of Christ.

Jesus Christ did not become a Christian. A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ.

I would never give that tract to anyone.

 

[Aaron]

So this tract states on the cover that Christ became a Christian?

Makes no sense. Christian means Christ in you, being a follower of Christ.

Jesus Christ did not become a Christian. A Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ.

I would never give that tract to anyone.

It's a meme I made. Not a real tract...though it should be printed and passed out in Israel™ and to the Dispies. To be a Christian means to enter into the New Covenant. Christ's baptism wasn't just an "example to follow."

 

[kyredneck]

There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.

One covenant.

He's been told.

 

[JD731]

...if this is not being replaced then I don't know the meaning of the word:

40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Lu 13

19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Ro 11

ky, oftentimes I think that commenters will paste parts of verses without proper context and definitions of terms and phases like above. I believe you have assumed that "kingdom of God" means church and nothing else in every instance and the word vineyard is not flushed out either. Neither do you recognize that God is not saying he is is giving the kingdom of God to a person or a company or some other entity but in verse 43 he says he is giving the kingdom that he is taking from the husbandmen of Judah to another NATION that will bring some fruit. I know the church is a family but is never called a nation. It has no land boundaries and a nation does The church is also a heavenly body and the nations are earthly entities.

I found this as a definition for "vineyard" in the Bible.
Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant:

Romans 11 has context and continuing explanation past verse 19 that we need to know. He was speaking to the gentiles about those natural branches who were broken off and warning them about attitude. Kingdom of God can extend over many appointments.