Mother Mary??

[DHK]

Originally posted by frozencell:
Exactly where does your "Shephard" reference directly mention baptismal regeneration? Anyone can quote that and brand it on the side of almost anything.

And by the way, you never answered my earlier question. Why do you baptize and why is your church named after John the Baptist?

I'm sorry that I even put the quote from Shepard in if it caused you so much consternation. That wasn't the main point of the quote. Here is his quote:

Customs have become worldly; discipline is relaxed; the Church is a sickly old woman, incapable of standing on her feet; rulers and ruled are all languishing, and many among them are corrupt, covetous, greedy, hypocritical, contentious, slanderers, blasphemers, libertines, spies, renegades, schismatics. Worthy teachers are not wanting, but there are also many false prophets, vain, eager after the first sees, for whom the greatest thing in life is not the practice of piety and justice, but the strife for the post of command. Now the day of wrath is at hand; the punishment will be dreadful; the Lord will give unto every one according to his works.

That is all that he said.
The rest of the quote, speaking of baptismal regeneration, comes from whom it says it did, at the end of the full quotation--(Stanley, Christian Institutions, p. 241. New York, 1881).

It is not Shepherd of Hermas that is being quoted there. It is Stanley being quoted concerning baptismal regeneration in his book on Christian Institutions. I wasn't making a case for or against the Shepherd's position on baptism. I hope that clears things up for you.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by frozencell:
Exactly where does your "Shephard" reference directly mention baptismal regeneration? Anyone can quote that and brand it on the side of almost anything.

And by the way, you never answered my earlier question. Why do you baptize and why is your church named after John the Baptist?

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is the Great Commission, the last command that Jesus gave His disciples before He ascended back into Heaven. The command is broken down into:
1. Go and teach all nations--literally make disciples. This involves witnessing and winning the lost to Christ. The lost need to be saved. They also need to be taught some basic things about Christ.

2. Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
This is the second command which is a simple step of obedience which always takes place after the completion of step one. That is, first they must be saved, and understand what salvation is all about. They must be taught. They must be taught enough to know the basics of salvation and what it means to be baptized.

3. Verse 20 says: "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." After baptism comes more teaching, more discipling. That is where the local church comes in. If you notice in Acts 2:

Acts 2:41-42 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

After they were saved, they were baptized. After they were baptized they joined the church. After they joined the church, they continued in the Apostle's doctrine (teaching). This is the New Testament pattern for a local church. It is carrying out the Great Commission.

The Baptist name, though honored by present day Baptists, was at first a name given out of derision by the enemies of the Baptists. It comes from our spiritual ancestors, the anabaptists. They were called the anabaptists because, as the name means, they "baptized again." It was mostly the Catholics and Anglicans which accused them of doing this and persecuted them to the hilt, even putting them to death for re-baptizing. The problem was that they had all been baptized as infants, mostly by the Catholics, or by whatever state-church was in power at that time (be it Catholic or Anglican). When a Baptist (or Anabaptist) got saved, he realized that infant baptism was of no consequence at all. It was meaningless. True baptism is by immersion only after one gets saved. Thus he was obligated by the Scriptures to be baptized again. And so they were called Anabaptists by their enemies who persecuted them for doing such. Over time the "ana" was dropped.
We do believe our heritage goes back farther than the anabaptists however. That is just where the name itself first crops up in history. We believe that there are groups of individuals in every age of history right back to the Apostolic Age who have adhered to the same basic principles that we do, though called by different names than we are.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
"So the water is the seal. Therefore they go down into the water dead and they come up alive."

The Shepherd of Hermas Chapter 93:4

I hope I have anwered your question or remark also. The entire quote that I gave was not citing the Shepherd of Hermas, only the first paragraph. I shouldn't have even included it, having now realized how much confusion it has caused. It was Stanley, in his book that wrote the rest of what was quoted on baptismal regeneration. I have no idea what the Shepherd of Hermas's stand on baptism was.
DHK

 

[Diana]

Um... back to Mary?

Does anyone know the earliest historical reference to Mary as a part of worship?

 

[BobRyan]

I have a quote about worshipping at Mary's altars -- will that do?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[frozencell]

Bob,

I am dying to see your quote, as it is undoubtably thoroughly misinformed and debunkable to the fullest.

 

[DHK]

Pagan Doctrines and Practices

It is very evident that many of the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church are Pagan in their origin.

Mariolatry was established as a doctrine of the Catholic Church at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Under the influence of Paganism it was felt that another mediator was needed. The Bible says there is but one mediator and he is specifically named. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5) Not only was Mary added as the chief mediator but there followed a multitude of other mediators in the form of Patron saints.

Pilgrimages and the veneration of relics was borrowed from Paganism. In the fourth century Saint Helena, mother of Constantine and empress of the Roman Empire, made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem where she is supposed to have found fragments of the true cross on which Christ was crucified. By the sixth century the belief in relics and their power to work miracles was widespread. Today relics form a vital part of the Catholic religion. The silence of the Scriptures and the testimony of historians make it evident that the veneration of relics came from Paganism and not from God.

The Rosary which is so dear to Catholics in their prayers is of very ancient origin. It is almost universal among all the pagan nations. Reference is made to it in Hindu sacred books. The Brahmins of Hindustan have long employed the rosary. It is a common thing among the adherents of the Buddhist faith. It is pagan in its origin and use. The Bible does not in the least way infer the need of a rosary to aid us in our prayer to God.

The doctrine of Purgatory is pagan in its origin. The Roman poet Virgil (70 B. C. - 19 B. C.) wrote of purgatory showing the pagans believed in it long before the Catholic Church taught it. If purgatory were Christian it could be found in the Bible.

Transubstantiation, which did not become a doctrine of the Catholic Church until the 13th century, is pagan. This Romish doctrine means that the bread and wine when blessed by the priest becomes the actual flesh and blood of Christ. The writer has witnessed a midnight mass (Mass is the center of Catholic worship) and the whole service was reeking with Paganism and Judaism. Many may say it is a beautiful service but to others it is a reminder of the pagan sacrifices and of the pagan mystery cults. If the doctrine of transubstantiation were Christian why did not the churches teach it in the first centuries?

The sign of the cross so frequently made by devout Catholics does not come from Christianity but from the Pagans. Actually the same sign now used by the adherents of Rome was used in the Babylonian Mysteries before Christ was ever crucified!

The infallibility of the pope which was not declared until 1870 could not be a Christian doctrine. Many historians believe that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiff s with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiff s at Babylon. The infallibility of the pope really sounds pagan when one observes that at one tune there were three popes, Urban VI, Clement VII, and Alexander V!

The way of salvation as taught by the Catholic Church is pagan. It is a way of salvation by works. There is not another church in the world so dedicated to teaching salvation by good works as the church of Rome. It is pagan. Salvation is by grace through faith. Eph. 2:8, 9 (Catholic translation)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not from yourselves, for it is the gift of God; not as the outcome of works lest anyone may boast.

Baptist Churches In All Ages
DHK

 

[Living4Him]

Church Councils define Church Doctrine:

There are 5 types of councils, Diocesan, National, Ecumenical, Plenary, and Provincial. No council has ever changed Church dogma, nor can it, since dogma was proclaimed by Jesus Christ Himself, Acts 6:12,15,15:6,*Gal 2:2.
An Ecumenical Council is where all the Bishops in the world that are entitled to vote, gather under the presidency of the Pope or his representative. There have been 21 Ecumenical councils in the history of the Church, other important councils called 'synods' are marked '*'.
The very first council or meeting of the Apostles and presbyters is recorded in Acts 15, and is called the Council of Jerusalem. Tradition speaks of St. James as being the Bishop of Jerusalem at that time of about 50 AD.

A Church council is usually a reaction as opposed to an action. They are held to define a truth after someone has denied it. Jesus Christ gave His authority in several verses of Holy Scripture. One example is in Luke 10:16, "He who hears you hears me". Armed with this authority, Church teaching has been accepted over the centuries. Then along comes someone who denies a certain teaching and therefore there becomes a need for a Church council to react to the denial. The Council of Ephesus of 431, one such reaction, defined the Blessed Virgin Mary as the "Theotokos", meaning GOD bearer or Mother of GOD. This formal teaching was only done after someone had denied it. Another example is the reaction of the Council of Trent in 1546 which defined again, the canon of Holy Scripture after seven books were denied by the Protestants in their revolt. Non-Catholics look at these reactive Church councils as teaching something new, when in fact, all they are doing is defining a truth that has been taught for centuries without denials.

The Major Councils Are...

Nicaea I, 325: The first world council in Church history was convened at the request of Emperor Constantine I (285-337). Jesus Christ is GOD, and is equal to the Father and to the Holy Spirit, the Nicene Creed.

Constantinople I, 381: divinity of the Holy Spirit, condemned the Arian heresy.

Rome 382: Pope Damasus I, settled the New Testament Canon. *

Hippo 393: work on the New Testament. *

Carthage 397: finalized the New Testament and the Deuterocanonicals. *

Ephesus, 431: Blessed Virgin is the Mother of GOD, hypostatic union.

Chalcedon, 451: condemned Monophysitism.

Constantinople II, 553: condemned the Three Chapters, and Nestorian heresy.

Constantinople III, 680: condemned Monothelitism, and censured Honorius.

Nicaea II, 787: condemned Iconoclasm.

Constantinople IV, 869: ended the Greek schism and deposed Photius.

Lateran I, 1123: issued decrees on celibacy and simony.

Lateran II, 1139: ended the Papal Schism.

Lateran III, 1179: condemned Albigensian and Waldensian heresies.

Lateran IV, 1215: planned a crusade, enacted reforms.

Lyons I, 1245: the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, true body and blood of Christ in the consecration, unleavened bread in hosts.

Lyons II, 1274: reunited the Church with the Greeks.

Vienne, 1311: abolished the Knight Templars.

Constance, 1414: ended the great schism. Basle, Ferrara.

Florence, 1431: union of Greeks, and enacted reforms.

Lateran V, 1512: treated of the Neo-Aristotelians, enacted reforms.

Trent, 1545: convened on Dec 4, 1545, and closed on Dec 4, 1563, it was the longest Church council ever, 18 years, and made the largest number of decrees. It is the most controversial among the Protestants as they claim falsely that the deuterocanonicals were 'added' then, but in fact they were 'reaffirmed'. If they were added, then how could Martin Luther have removed them in 1531? See 'Carthage' above. The council authenticated the Vulgate, and declared the Bible & Tradition are rules of faith.

Vatican I, 1869: Papal infallibility.

Vatican II, 1962: the greatest religious event of the 20th century. So much was accomplished in this council. There are several books written on what was discussed here. Please refer to Vatican Council II, Vols 1,2,3,4,5.

 

[BobRyan]

I am sure that Catholics place a lot of faith in their magesterium - hoping that it is always correct. Maybe even insisting upon it - as many others insist that their magesterium is correct.

I am guessing that Catholics even find a way to agree with the Lateran IV statements about exterminating Jews, and dissenters from the church.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Living4Him:

Constantinople IV, 869: ended the Greek schism and deposed Photius.

Lateran II, 1139: ended the Papal Schism.

Lateran IV, 1215: planned a crusade, enacted reforms. Commanded extermination for Jews and Christians that dissent against heresies of Rome.

Constance, 1414: ended The Great Papal Schism. Basle, Ferrara. Ended all 3 ruling papal lines and started a new one.
[/QB]

Thanks for the list.

Which one commanded the inquisition and torture of Christians that differ from the heresies of Rome?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by DHK:
Pagan Doctrines and Practices

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It is very evident that many of the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church are Pagan in their origin.

Mariolatry was established as a doctrine of the Catholic Church at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Under the influence of Paganism it was felt that another mediator was needed. The Bible says there is but one mediator and he is specifically named. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5) Not only was Mary added as the chief mediator but there followed a multitude of other mediators in the form of Patron saints.

Pilgrimages and the veneration of relics was borrowed from Paganism. In the fourth century Saint Helena, mother of Constantine and empress of the Roman Empire, made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem where she is supposed to have found fragments of the true cross on which Christ was crucified. By the sixth century the belief in relics and their power to work miracles was widespread. Today relics form a vital part of the Catholic religion. The silence of the Scriptures and the testimony of historians make it evident that the veneration of relics came from Paganism and not from God.

Baptist Churches In All Ages
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Excellent - thanks.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Living4Him]

Bob,
What is your deal? You added stuff to what I posted and listed it as quoted by me. You are twisting my post and adding your own comments to them (which are untrue)in an attempt to make it look like I agree with you.

 

[Living4Him]

And another thing Bob,Commanded extermination for Jews? Where did you come up with that?

Distinguishing Jews Called for in Lateran IV: Canon 68 - On Jews from Jewish virtual library

In some provinces a difference in dress distinguishes the Jews or Saracens from the Christians, but in certain others such a confusion has grown up that they cannot be distinguished by any difference. Thus it happens at times that through error Christians have relations with the women of Jews or Saracens, and Jews and Saracens with Christian women. Therefore, that they may not, under pretext of error of this sort, excuse themselves in the future for the excesses of such prohibited intercourse, we decree that such Jews and Saracens of both sexes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress. Particularly, since it may be read in the writings of Moses [Numbers 15:37-41], that this very law has been enjoined upon them.

Moreover, during the last three days before Easter and especially on Good Friday, they shall not go forth in public at all, for the reason that some of them on these very days, as we hear, do not blush to go forth better dressed and are not afraid to mock the Christians who maintain the memory of the most holy Passion by wearing signs of mourning.

This, however, we forbid most severely, that any one should presume at all to break forth in insult to the Redeemer. And since we ought not to ignore any insult to Him who blotted out our disgraceful deeds, we command that such impudent fellows be checked by the secular princes by imposing them proper punishment so that they shall not at all presume to blaspheme Him who was crucified for us.

 

[frozencell]

Transubstantiation, which did not become a doctrine of the Catholic Church until the 13th century, is pagan. This Romish doctrine means that the bread and wine when blessed by the priest becomes the actual flesh and blood of Christ. The writer has witnessed a midnight mass (Mass is the center of Catholic worship) and the whole service was reeking with Paganism and Judaism. Many may say it is a beautiful service but to others it is a reminder of the pagan sacrifices and of the pagan mystery cults. If the doctrine of transubstantiation were Christian why did not the churches teach it in the first centuries?

As this has been so clearly proven to the contrary on the John 6 thread I am shocked you even had the guts to put such a blatent lie up in here. This being said, the rest of the post doesn't even deserve an answer as it is on the same "Jack Chick" wavelength. I cannot take seriously anything that refers to the RCC as "Romanists". Come on, at least have common courtesy if not intellect.

And saying "heresies of Rome" doesn't make it so. I could say "heresies of the Protestants" but it doesn't make me right. Even though, I may be closer to the truth than you on this.

And it looks to me like the Church was telling those Jews who made fun of Christians to stay in their houses so as not to give them the occasion to sin. They were saving the Jews from themselves!!! And telling them to stay in their houses is a far cry from "exterminating" them.

Once again, please get your facts straight.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
Bob,
What is your deal? You added stuff to what I posted and listed it as quoted by me. You are twisting my post and adding your own comments to them (which are untrue)in an attempt to make it look like I agree with you.

Sorry L4H - I did not mean to imply that you would have admitted to all those details of history - I was merely giving you the credit for pointing out the various councils while ALSO adding some of the deleted data that you probobaly just "forgot" to add in.

I am sure none of us would want to miss anything that wonderful RCC was doing in the dark ages you know.

In Christ,


Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
And another thing Bob,Commanded extermination for Jews? Where did you come up with that?

Distinguishing Jews Called for in Lateran IV: Canon 68 - On Jews from Jewish virtual library

Vatican Hosts Inquisition Symposium

By CANDICE HUGHES[/b]

.c The Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican assembled a blue-ribbon panel of scholars Thursday to examine the Inquisition and declared its readiness to submit the church's darkest institution to the judgment of history.

The three-day symposium is part of the Roman Catholic Church's countdown to 2000. Pope John Paul II wants the church to begin the new millennium with a clear conscience, which means facing up to past sins.

For many people, the Inquisition is one of the church's worst transgressions. For centuries, ecclesiastical ``thought police'' tried, tortured and burned people at the stake for heresy and other crimes.

``The church cannot cross the threshold of the new millennium without pressing its children to purify themselves in repentance for their errors, infidelity, incoherence,'' Cardinal Roger Etchegaray said, opening the conference.

The inquisitors went after Protestants, Jews, Muslims and presumed heretics. They persecuted scientists like Galileo. They banned the Bible in anything but Latin, which few ordinary people could read.

The Inquisition began in the 13th century and lasted into the 19th. An index of banned books endured even longer, until 1966. And it was 1992 before the church rehabilitated Galileo, condemned for saying the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

The symposium, which gathers experts from inside and outside the church, is the Vatican's first critical look at the church's record of repression.

Among other things, it will give scholars a chance to compare notes on what they've found in the secret Vatican archives on the Inquisition, which the Holy See only recently opened.

``The church is not afraid to submit its past to the judgment of history,'' said Etchegaray, a Frenchman who leads the Vatican's Commission on the Grand Jubilee.

Closed to the public and press, the symposium is not expected to produce any definitive statement from the Vatican on the Inquisition. That is expected in 2000 as part of the grand ``mea culpa'' at the start of Christianity's third millennium.

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

Etchegaray on Thursday swept aside the idea that it can be seen a series of local campaigns whose excesses might be blamed on secular authorities. There was only one Inquisition, he said, and it was undeniably an ecclesiastical institution.

The pontiff may give a hint as to his thinking on Saturday, when he meets with participants in the conference.

About 50 scholars from Europe, the United States and Latin America are taking part.

AP-NY-10-29-98 1403EST

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Catholic Church says must own up for Inquisition

By Alessandra Galloni[/b]

VATICAN CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Thursday said it had to take responsibility for one of the darkest eras in Roman Catholic church history and not lay blame for the Inquisition on civil prosecutors.

Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, head of the Vatican's main committee for the year 2000, opened a three-day symposium on the Inquisition saying it was time to re-examine the work of the special court the church set up in 1233 to curb heresy.

Etchegaray said some scholars claimed there were several inquisitions: one in Rome, which worked directly under the Holy See's control, and others in Spain and in Portugal which were often aided by the local civil courts.

``We cannot ignore the fact that this (attempt to distinguish between inquisitions) has allowed some to make apologetic arguments and lay responsibility for what Iberian tribunals did onto civil authorities,'' he said.

``The fact that the Spanish and Portuguese crowns...had powers of intervention...on inquisitory tribunals does not change the ecclesiastical character of the institution,'' he said.

Pope Gregory IX created the Inquisition to help curb heresy, but church officials soon began to count on civil authorities to fine, imprison and even torture heretics.

One of the Inquisition's best known victims was the astronomer Galileo, condemned for claiming the earth revolved around the sun.

The Inquisition reached its height in the 16th century to counter the Reformation. The department later became the Holy Office and its successor now is called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which controls the orthodoxy of Catholic teaching.

Some of the conclusions of the international symposium, which ends on Saturday, could be included in a major document in which the church is expected to ask forgiveness for its past errors as part of celebrations for the year 2000.

The church ``cannot pass into the new millennium without urging its sons to purify themselves, through penitence, of its errors, its infidelities and its incoherences...,'' Father Georges Cottier, a top Vatican theologian and head of the theological commission for the year 2000, told the symposium.

Etchegaray said the conference could also draw on examples that scholars had been able to examine since January, when the Vatican opened secret files.

The archives also opened the infamous Index of Forbidden Books which Roman Catholics were not allowed to read or possess on pain of excommunication. Even the bible was on the blacklist.

Pope John Paul has said in several documents and speeches that the Church needs to assume responsibility for the Inquisition, which was responsible for the forced conversion of Jews as well as the torture and killing of heretics.

While there may have been mitigating historical factors for the behaviour of some Catholics, the Pope has said this did not prevent the church from expressing regret for the wrongs of its members in some periods of history.

He initiated the procedure that led to the rehabilitation of Galileo, completed in 1992.

19:01 10-29-98

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BalmofGilead]

...As I was cleaning our church tonight I had time to think and reflect on things above. I thought of how the Passion movie has opened the back and forth arguing again between Christians and Catholics. Thinking of how we've all been taught tolerance...when our ancestors came to this country way back their families were adamant that they didn't marry outside of their ethnic background and faith. Now we've become one jumbled mess. I know God had it right when He gave this to us "2 Corinthians 6
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I do believe that there are saved catholics, just as there are saved people who don't even go to church. We strain at a gnat don't we? Matthew 23
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

The IMPORTANT thing here isn't church, it's JESUS...HELLO. Religion has sent many to hell but faith in Jesus hasn't. I'd rather have Jesus than anything the world affords today . The Lord has been showing and confirming something to me lately...

We are vessels right?

Mary was another vessel that God used. God uses us daily to bring forth His will whether we know it or not. If one drop of Mary's blood would have coarsed through Jesus He would not have been our sinless Saviour. She gave birth to her Saviour...our Saviour!!! God used her as a vessel a means of bringing forth the greatest Man that ever lived! Also, If Mary did as Jesus instructed then she would have prayed to our Father in her own Son's name.

We will see all things someday in glory and scoff that we spent so much time arguing these things...we are wasting precious time here...get out, tell those lost sinners of Jesus and add to the Lord's kingdom...snatch those sinners out of the devils hand...

my 2 cents worth...
BG

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by frozencell:
Bob,

I am dying to see your quote, as it is undoubtably thoroughly misinformed and debunkable to the fullest.

Nothing more satisfying than to see Catholics debunking their own scholars and authorities...

Have at it...

"Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, Oh Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother....we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature, from the moment of conception until the day on which after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe. Oh crystal fountain of
faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. Oh Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell. Oh well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, Oh Mary, cover our aching wound; convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred,
sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity and protect the Holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers...Receive, Oh sweet Mother our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us that on that day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars. You are beautiful Oh Mary. You are Glory Oh Mary. You are the joy, you are the Honor of
our people." - Pope Pius XII, celebration of the Marian Year in Rome, 1950

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BalmofGilead:
...As I was cleaning our church tonight I had time to think and reflect on things above. I thought of how the Passion movie has opened the back and forth arguing again between Christians and Catholics. BG

Actually I think the Passion as a "subject" on this board and others tends to show more agreement between Protestants and Catholics than "debate".

In Christ,

Bob