JeffreyLloyd
New Member
Ave Maria
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JeffreyLloyd
New Member
As it did from me. I doubt Jesus would deny his mother anything listed
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I was being asked to defend that statement as having RC origin - I am happy to see so many RC posters jumping in and confirming that it is indeed - RC sentiment.
Sometime people think I am making this up just to expose the RCC in a bad light- ... pay attention folks - it is "real". I always use RC sources - because that way it is the RC itself letting you in on its secrets.
Many thanks to our RC posters for confirmation.
In Christ,
Bob
Sometime people think I am making this up just to expose the RCC in a bad light- ... pay attention folks - it is "real". I always use RC sources - because that way it is the RC itself letting you in on its secrets.
Many thanks to our RC posters for confirmation.
In Christ,
Bob
JeffreyLloyd
New Member
Yes, I believe the Pope is right: Jesus has the power to do whatever he liked. I'm sure he gives his mother the power to give us grace. You can't limit the Lord.
I don't really like the wording here "all power", but I do believe Jesus listens to His mom... do you?
What does "omnipotent" mean?
Having virtually unlimited authority or influence
I have no doubt Christ allowes his mother to have influence. She prays for us after all.
I agree again. Like a famous quote from Martin Luther:
"Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing."
I believe that what Mary prays for, Jesus grants. It's His mom!
Look at all the quotes. Mary has nothing except what Christ gives her. The same is true for all the saints and us for that matter.
We are nothing without Christ.
You have a warped sense of who God is. Your God is defined by the Pope rather than the Bible, God's revelation to mankind. The statement: "Jesus has the power to do whatever he liked," is false. Christ, as God, cannot lie. He does not do that which is against His nature, and He never goes contrary to His Word, which you would have Him to do.
Your depiction of God is a little pawn in the hand of the Pope doing whatever the Pope bids Him to do. He is just a pawn of the Pope that is all. That's the great thing about the Catholic Church isn't it? Infamous gangsters and the mob found this out years ago. You can be a Catholic and have your religion and sin at the same time. You can sin all week. It's like you carry your sin in one pocket and your god in the other pocket--a symbol of respectability. You just go to confession once in a while and everything is cool.
So to get back to the subject at hand, your statement would be better rendered: "The pope gave the 'mother of God' (sic) power to give us grace."
That would be more accurate wouldn't it. The pope defines your God, not the Bible.
Jesus Christ is God, from eternity to eternity, now in Heaven; has no "mom" mother, etc. Do you believe the Bible?
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mary has no power in Heaven. Jesus has it all.
Mary is a guilty sinner redeemed by the blood of the lamb. She has no power to intercede on your behalf. She is dead. She cannot pray for you; she is dead. Praying to her is a form of necromancy--praying or communicating with the dead! Christ does not give her any special privileges, any more than He would Peter's mother or Timothy's grandmother. They are all dead. All are equal in God's sight.
Can you give Biblical evidence that Mary prays for you?
Can you Biblical evidence that Christ gave Mary power to intercede for you?
The only one that is omnipotent is God. It is an attribute that belongs to God alone. By attributing omnipotence to Mary, you are declaring her to be God. (But we already knew you believed that).
Good for you. Mary prays for nothing. Jesus grants nothing. You have a spiritually dead religion.
I don't have to look at the quotes. The statement is true as it stands. Mary and the saints in Heaven have nothing except what Christ has given them. That much is true. They are all equal in the eyes of Christ. And not one of them (Mary included) has the power to sway Christ one iota. It is Christ who has ALL power in Heaven and in earth.
DHK
neal4christ
New Member
So in order to be a mother, one must physically give birth? So then there is no such thing as an adoptive mother, right?
Who's DNA was in Jesus' physical body? And what would you call Mary in her relationship with Jesus, Bob? Guardian? Babysitter? Nanny? What?
In Christ,
Neal
trying2understand
New Member
Mary has no influence on Jesus? Then why did Jesus turn the water to wine at the wedding feast? Jesus did not even agree to do anything about the situation but Mary told the stewards to do whatever He said. And Jesus honored His mother's wishes.
If it is true that no Saint in Heaven has any sway with Christ, presumedly neither would we. So why exactly do you bother to pray for things that you need or want? Prayers of thanksgiving and praise, ok. But prayers asking for something? Why bother if no one can sway Jesus?
Obviously, you are wrong on this point, DHK. Jesus is moved by our prayers. And the prayers of those who love him more and are more obedient to Him are surely more effective.
Paul of Eugene
New Member
Of course Mary has influence with Jesus. She has the same right to pray that we all have. I suspect she is more spiritually advanced than most, at that. But my understanding of our nature is that we are, throughout eternity, finite rather than infinite; and nothing about being the fortunate chosen one to bear the Christ would change that about Mary. She can't be in two places at the same time, for instance. That's my protestant sentiments.
One of the premises of this topic is that Mary is the mother of Christianity. Neal4Christ said
Mary gave physical birth to a child who would be called the Christ, among several hundred other names. Jesus the Christ is the one whose name is associated with the Christian religion, Mary had nothing to do with establishing the Religion, only with mothering the child who would establish the religion. Therefore it is WRONG to associate the mother of the founder of the religion with being the mother of the religion. Grandmother maybe, but not mother! Mary can never be credited with the founding of the Church! OR with being it's brood-hen. The church was founded by Jesus in his chosen disciples and all who believe in Him. Mary believed in him and was therefore a part of the church, but not having an authoritative role in the church.
trying2understand
New Member
I can answer with three words.
Enoch
Elijah
Moses
JeffreyLloyd
New Member
check mate
I can answer with three words.
Enoch
Elijah
Moses </font>[/QUOTE]No record of Moses exists!
Enoch and Elijah will be returned to earth to fulfill the prophesy that says there they will be the two witnesses killed in the streets of Jerusalem, bodies left laying in the streets, and on the third day will arise again to life. They will have been killed and therefore do meet the requirement that "it is appointed unto man once to die..."
As for Moses, there is no record of his death, which puts him in the company of literally Billions of humans who's deaths are not recorded! So there is no Religious grounds upon which to state that Moses ascended into heaven never tasting death. If you have a copy of his death certificate, it would be nice to view it!
trying2understand
New Member
Hebrews 11:5
"By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him";[1] for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
2 Kings 2:11
"Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Now can you cite the verse that states the Enoch and Elijah will return to be killed in the streets of Jerualem? Or are you adding to Scripture?
I find it humourous that the same people who want to deny that Enoch, Elijah & probably Moses were assumed into Heaven, have bought into the Left Behind stuff. Those taken in the supposed secret pretrib rapture don't die either do they?
BTW, the Church does not teach that Mary did not die!!!
What a surprise that must be, huh?
The Church teaches that Mary was assumed into Heaven. It makes no statement as to whether she was assumed before or after her death.
Mary has no influence on Jesus? Then why did Jesus turn the water to wine at the wedding feast? Jesus did not even agree to do anything about the situation but Mary told the stewards to do whatever He said. And Jesus honored His mother's wishes.[/QUOTE]
Jesus answered Mary with a rebuke:
John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
--That is not a word of honor; it is a rebuke. He probably would have performed the miracle anyway, for it was a miracle that was designed to attest to his deity, not to attest that he was an obedient boy to his mother. The purpose was to demonstrate that He was God come in the flesh.
First, in Heaven we have no need of praying for anything. We will be with Christ, in His physical presence, in a place where there will be no more sorrow, suffering, pain, etc.
Secondly, prayer on earth is for our benefit, not God's; for He knows what we need even before we ask. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows if, what, and when you will pray. The free will is always yours. The foreknowlege is God's. He knows what decisions you will make before you make them. In that sense you cannot change God's mind; He already knew before the foundation of the world what you would pray. The prayer is for your benefit, not God's. God has need of nothing, or He wouldn't be God.
God is moved by our prayers in the sense that He loves us. That's why he desires his children to pray--it is for our benefit. But he already knew if, when and what you would pray. The answers to your prayers were answered before the foundation of the world.
DHK
Living4Him
New Member
Yelsew2,
From the 11th Chapter of Revelations it does not identify who the two witnesses are.
Do they represent Moses and Elijah, or the Law and the Prophets, or Peter and Paul? It could also refer to the universal church, especially the Christian martyrs, fulfilling the office of witness (two because of Deut. 19:15, Mark 6:7, and John 8:17)
From the 11th Chapter of Revelations it does not identify who the two witnesses are.
Do they represent Moses and Elijah, or the Law and the Prophets, or Peter and Paul? It could also refer to the universal church, especially the Christian martyrs, fulfilling the office of witness (two because of Deut. 19:15, Mark 6:7, and John 8:17)
trying2understand
New Member
Doesn't say that he will be killed in the street.
Reading into Scripture again, DHK?