trying2understand
New Member
It means that Mary's body was assumed into Heaven.
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But which, of all the recorded departures, is there no record of death? Elijah and Elisha. Unless you believe that they were divine beings, you are compelled to believe they were men just like you and I. Therefore since it is appointed unto man once to die, then the judgment. And since scripture does not identify the "two witnesses", it is proper to arrive at the conclusion that the two witnesses are Elijah and Elisha, as God is no respecter of man. Therefore they too must die from the flesh or make God a liar!
trying2understand
New Member
Yelsew2, what are your beliefs concerning a pretribulation rapture? Will those who are caught up in the rapture die first?
It means that Mary's body was assumed into Heaven. </font>[/QUOTE]Since we have no records of the deaths and burials of women, you would conclude that Mary was bodily taken into heaven? Has that ever in recorded history happened to man other then Elijah and Elisha? There is no eye-witness reports that state that Mary ascended "alive in the flesh" into heaven, and we have no record of the Chosen apostles doing the same, so what makes you think that Mary merits such treatement when God's other chosen vessels are not likewise ascended into heaven?
What a foolish doctrine!
Yelsew2, what are your beliefs concerning a pretribulation rapture? Will those who are caught up in the rapture die first? </font>[/QUOTE]I'll answer with questions,
Can corrupt human flesh enter heaven?
Can you cite examples of the actual flesh of humans entering a domain of "Spirits". "God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
Why are the graves of all the departed saints still occupied with their fleshly remains?
trying2understand
New Member
I'd rather not have to guess at your beliefs.
Do you believe in the pretrib secret rapture?
If so, do they die first?
neal4christ
New Member
Hmm...I wasn't doing such a thing. Please go back and read all my posts. I am dealing with calling Mary the mother of God, and I was asking Bob some questions. I see you have no problem calling her the mother of the Christ.
By the way, I am not Catholic and I am not defending their position. I see a knee jerk response in the opposite direction that bothers me. Next thing you know we will start denying the Trinity because Catholics have something to do with it!
In Christ,
Neal
trying2understand
New Member
Sorry, DHK. I figured that you were offering a verse within the context of the conversation of the thread.
I didn't know that you were just throwing out random verses for no reason.
My bad.
Catholics have nothing to do with the Trinity! Scripture declares there is a trinity, or Triune Godhead. See the Baptism of Jesus! Tell me how many elements of God are revealed to man in that scene...which took place before the church was formed! It is not a Catholic invention!
Sorry, DHK. I figured that you were offering a verse within the context of the conversation of the thread.
I didn't know that you were just throwing out random verses for no reason.
My bad.
--Talk about reading into something.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
The promise of God is that He will send Elijah. When will he send Elijah? He will send him before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD. The sense is just before that time, not 2,000 years or longer. What is "the great and dreadful day of the Lord?" It is that day when Jesus comes again. It will be a glorious day for both the saints of God and for the nation of Israel; but it will be a great and dreadful day for all unbelievers on the earth as is described in the Book of Revelation. In fact they will try to hide from the Lamb that sits on the throne. There will be no place of hiding for them.
Revelation 19:19-20 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Elijah will appear before that time described in Revelation 19. The only place that I can think of is Revelation 11.
DHK
trying2understand
New Member
That's great, DHK. How does it fit into the context of the thread? Assumption? All men are appointed to die?
What does it matter? I won't be left behind! Paul speaks of those living in the flesh at that time who are believers will "be changed" in the twinkling of an eye. That may mean that the bodies of flesh get left behind and the spirits go directly to heaven. So technically speaking, the spirit departs the flesh and the flesh which is now without its lifeforce dies. What a mess of Carci the will be. It will take 3 1/3 years to clean up the mess. Paul also said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD! So who cares whether or not the flesh dies?
trying2understand
New Member
Why do you assume that "be changed in the twinkle of an eye" means that bodies of flesh get left behind?
Did Jesus leave His body of flesh when He was transfigured on the mount?
neal4christ
New Member
Yelsew,
Please show me where I said such a thing. You need to chill out a bit, my friend. Bottom line is you did attribute something to me that I was not defending and then you turn around and do the same thing here.
In Christ,
Neal
P.S. Wasn't it a Catholic who first summarized the doctrine of the Trinity? Even though you say it is clear (which I agree with), there are those who do not (and did not in the early church) believe so. There is no mention of the word "trinity," which was my point. I believe it was first a Catholic who put that forth (if I am not mistaken).
Why do you assume that "be changed in the twinkle of an eye" means that bodies of flesh get left behind?
Did Jesus leave His body of flesh when He was transfigured on the mount? </font>[/QUOTE]Good question? I wasn't there and don't know. The evidence says that Jesus arose bodily from the grave, and that some 40 days later He ascended into heaven. In that 40 days he made appearances to his disciples and other believers, some 500 eye witnesses by most estimations. There were however periods of time when no one saw him, and he was not with his flock. So all we have to go by is what is recorded. It remains a mystery as to what form of body Jesus had when He ascended.
For the two on the road to emmaeus (sp) he was with them then suddenly disappeared. Flesh does not do that...at least to all available knowledge we have.
