Moving any mountains lately?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JK: Tell that to the thief on the cross.

HP: It works for him as well. The truth in his case most likely would be that he had no opportunity to form any other intention than that to believe. Rest assured, if he had, and he by that intent rejected the faith, or acted contrary to that faith he exhibited in Christ, he would not have made it in.

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: It works for him as well. The truth in his case most likely would be that he had no opportunity to form any other intention than that to believe. Rest assured, if he had, and he by that intent rejected the faith, or acted contrary to that faith he exhibited in Christ, he would not have made it in.

Sorry,but your not correct. He was saved by grace just like all true born again believers are and possesed Eternal Life!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JK. who in the world suggested that he was not saved by grace?? I certainly did not.

 

[steaver]

HP:
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I can only tell you what the Scriptures say. If that is not specific enough for your mind, I hope you will have the opportunity to ask God in person for further clarification.

So you believe there is a law that states we are to offer our sons upon an alter? What about those who don't have any sons?

I do see two laws at work in the text you provided;
1) Rahab help her neighbour
2) Abraham believed God

That's right, those are the two commandments that fulfill ALL law. The very thing true believers in Christ strive to obey.

Did you notice how James, speaking on behalf of God by the Holy Spirit, includes Rahab's harlotry and shows it had no effect on her justification before God?

Did you notice that?

Interesting.

I reckon you won't know what to do with that piece of information. Justified, even while a harlot.

 

[steaver]

JK. who in the world suggested that he was not saved by grace?? I certainly did not.

HP,

Are you saying that grace cannot be applied unless the person has faith AND is obedient to God's commandments?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Are you saying that grace cannot be applied unless the person has faith AND is obedient to God's commandments?

HP: I am not sure what you mean by ‘grace’ being applied unless the blood and grace are synonymous with you. ’ The blood will not be applied by grace to our sins that are past until we repent and have faith in the blood of Christ.

 

[steaver]

HP: I am not sure what you mean by ‘grace’ being applied unless the blood and grace are synonymous with you. ’ The blood will not be applied by grace to our sins that are past until we repent and have faith in the blood of Christ.

When you say "repent" do you mean obey God's commandments that you might be breaking or do you mean repent as in turning from unbelief to belief?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Gal 5 NASB
4 You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Yes Bob. If you are trying to be justified by the Law, you have cut yourself off from Christ. You will not come to Christ if you are convinced that keeping the Law will save you. You are separating yourself from the grace of God. You cannot be saved by works, only by grace.

Nothing in this passage speaks of losing one's salvation.

Hint - you cannot "fall from" a position you never had.

You cannot be "severed from" a connection you never had.

Another big clue here is that those who ARE joined to Christ and enjoying their position covered by Grace - are not the lost... they are the saved.

Another not-so-subtle clue for context here is that in Gal 5:7 "you were running well - who hindered you?"

Is it the lost and depraved that "were running well"?
Is it the lost and depraved that are "joined to Christ"?
Is it the lost and depraved sinners that are "not to fall from their position of Grace" - but rather to persevere in that glorious lost condition?

Surely the traditions of man are able to blind the bible student who thinks that this must be the condition of the lost -

It is not possible that Paul's gospel can be downsized to a message telling the lost how to persevere in a better lost state - than a worse lost state.

How in the world were we supposed to miss that not-so-subtle detail?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Amy.G]

Hint - you cannot "fall from" a position you never had.

Grace is not a position. It's a gift.

You cannot be "severed from" a connection you never had.

You most certainly can. If a person rejects Christ 'til the day they die, they most definitely have cut themselves off from Him.

Another big clue here is that those who ARE joined to Christ and enjoying their position covered by Grace - are not the lost... they are the saved.

Another not-so-subtle clue for context here is that in Gal 5:7 "you were running well - who hindered you?"

Yes they were doing well, until the Judaizers came in and began to teach false doctrine, which they were beginning to believe. Believers get entangled with false doctrine everyday but it does not mean they lose their salvation. You are adding that to the text.

How in the world were we supposed to miss that not-so-subtle detail?

in Christ,

Bob

The not so subtle detail that you miss is that Jesus says "I will never leave you nor forsake you" and "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish".

Those are promises Bob. God does NOT break His promises.



You are also trying to make your case by using the word "severed". Here is the same verse in the NLT.


NLT - Gal 5:4 -
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace.


This give the sense of the verse.

 

[BobRyan]

Another big clue here is that those who ARE joined to Christ and enjoying their position covered by Grace - are not the lost... they are the saved.

Another not-so-subtle clue for context here is that in Gal 5:7 "you were running well - who hindered you?"

Yes they were doing well, until the Judaizers came in and began to teach false doctrine, which they were beginning to believe. Believers get entangled with false doctrine everyday but it does not mean they lose their salvation.

You are correct that saved believers do sometimes fall for false doctrine.

But as you can see in Gal 5:4 - the OSAS doctrine "needs" to imagine that "fallen from Grace" and "severed FROM Christ" - is some kind of new graceless, Christless gospel underwhich the saved saints can "STILL" be said to be in a saved state.

But in fact - the Bible does not offer a "Graceless Christless gospel" hope of salvation.

Apart from Christ - there is no salvation.

Thus to become severed from Christ - as a result of accepting false doctrine is to lose salvation - if you just stick with the Bible on this point.

And that is the problem for OSAS.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Jedi Knight]

You are correct that saved believers do sometimes fall for false doctrine.

But in fact

Bob

in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus deals in facts! Thats why true believers won't stay in it....temporary at best but they will hear the shephards call and not stay in it.