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Featured Moving away from Doctrine? Maturity or Apostasy?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Feb 11, 2022.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes. Christ suffered under the evil of this World by the predetermined plan of God. God was pleased to crush Him, to put Him to grief. He not o ly lay down His own life but the Father sent Him. He came to do the will of the Father. The World esteemed Him stricken by God when in fact He was redeeming them.

    This is one way we know Penal Substitution Theory is a false doctrine.
     
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The twisting is done when you take that verse out of context.
     
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  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Moving away from NON-SCRIPTURAL doctrine such as the preterism myth or the KJVO myth is always good, as such doctrines are false.
     
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  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Then why do you do it?
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I don't
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Then perhaps the problem is that you do not have good reading comprehension skills? The text is really clear.
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I quite agree with you, but I don't see that your point affects my post.
    Perhaps you will explain further.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I fully agree that your PS Lite Theory is a false doctrine, but the Doctrine of Penal Substitution is correct, and your post has done absolutely nothing to prove otherwise.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My post is not here to prove anything. Scripture is tge standard....and is what has proven the Penal Substitution Theory error.

    You gave your defi itinerary of the Doctrine of Penal Substitution. That definition excluded those things where the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement goes astray from the Christian faith. That is good.

    I am glad you reject Penal Substitution Theory (what you call "PS Lite"). I agree it is very unbiblical as it adds paganism to Scripture. It holds that the Father inflicted suffering and death on Christ and that Christ experienced God's wrath.

    I think we can at least agree those things are not in the written Word of God.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    He accomplished redemption.
    It was actual...it was perfect.
    There is no other way to be saved...but Jesus said it was finished.
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Yes He did provide a way for our salvation through His death & resurrection. But I notice that you did not address the scripture that I quoted.

    I agree there is no other way to be saved but by faith in Christ Jesus. Where the difference comes in is that you seem to think all the elect were saved at the cross but that is a error on your part. But it seems you have been determined to think that way.
     
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The elect WERE all bought at the cross.
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Then why preach? If you were one of the lucky ones that were elect, your saved if you missed the cut, your damned. Preaching the gospel will make no difference either way. So I ask again WHY PREACH?
     
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    How many times do we have to answer this? IT IS COMMANDED. The preaching, hearing, and belief in the Word is what God has prescribed for the election to be sealed.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God has commanded it as a means to effectually call all of the elect to salvation.
    God elected the people and ordained the means 2tim1:9
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    But there is the fly in the ointment. Your theology as you just said requires all the elect to be bought/saved at the atonement. So why do you require the gospel to be preached. Do you think that your version of God does not know who He elected? According to your theology you even need God to give you faith. You really need to do a rethink on what your saying about the character of God.

    By your logic God just picked out a group to save and then damned everyone else even though that is not what the bible says. The cognitive dissonance that I see displayed by the average Calvinist is to say the least mind boggling.
     
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You quote 1Ti 1:9 but you overlook other verses such as
    Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

    Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
    Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Do you really think that little of God that you are willing to drag His character through the mud?

    1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    You want a God that only wants to save some while I worship the God that wants all to be saved and those that trust in His son will be. But the choice is theirs to make.

    Eph_2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
     
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That is EXACTLY what the Bible says. So take it up with God, not me.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello Silverhair
    Why do you quote Eph.1:13 as if verses1-12do not come first?
    Is it because you want to invent a man centered god?
    You do not seem to like the God who has revealed Himself in Eph.1 verses1-13...so you snip out the verses that you do not care for.
    When you do that how can you have a serious discussion?
    Paul bursts into praise in this sentence....Eph.1:3-11is one sentence in the original language.It is to be read as one complete thought.
    You should not use whiteout to remove those God centered portions.
    The election of the people before time demonstrates why the end result is rebel sinners are drawn savingly to a saving belief.
     
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